Rumor about MK LP music

[mkscskaterfan]

There is a rumor flying around (MKF and Figure Skating Universe) that Michelle is not only using Bolero as her LP music, but that the program is being choreographed by Chris Dean......Anyone have any info on this?

If it's true, I think it's a bad choice.......

[HoneyGalJ]

I won't believe it until she confirms it. This reminds me of last year when there were rumors Sasha would use Swan Lake for her short. That was wrong but shd did confirm she will be using Swan Lake for her long. Please let her use a new choerographer.

[honey827]

I don't know whether it is true or not it seems a little far fetched but with that said I liked the Rush program that he did for Michelle and if this is done right I think it could be brilliant but it also has the potential to be a dud we will have to see what happens.

[SashaTheGreat]

There is a rumor flying around (MKF and Figure Skating Universe) that Michelle is not only using Bolero as her LP music, but that the program is being choreographed by Chris Dean......Anyone have any info on this?

If it's true, I think it's a bad choice.......

Hmm, this could turn out to be very interesting (if true). I LOVE CD's choreography, he's among the very best.

[ouridol]

Interesting. But I'm not going to get worked up over something that is false (if it is). ;) I don't know how Michelle would do with Bolero since some of her coreography can be boring at times, and this piece is monotonous if you don't use it well. Oh well. We will see. :)

[mkscskaterfan]

I won't believe it until she confirms it. This reminds me of last year when there were rumors Sasha would use Swan Lake for her short. That was wrong but shd did confirm she will be using Swan Lake for her long. Please let her use a new choerographer.


Actually, wasn't Sasha originally going to use Swan Lake as her short? I remember in an interview, she said that they were going to use it as her short, but that TT thought it would be a shame to waste such lovely music by cutting it into a small piece...does anyone remember this?

[danibellerika]

I do. I remember that there was talk of Sasha using Mask of Zorro as the lp and SL as the short, but Sasha's mom didn't really like it so her and TT and Sasha decided to go with SL as the LP.

If MK is using Bolero, that's kinda a let down because I find the music annoying. If she has choreography to it though, then I guess it MAY not be too bad. Just no more Tosca and Aranjuez type programs and it will definately be a much needed step up.

[skatepixie]

MK doing Bolero? I dinno. I dont think she is really equipted (for lack of a better word) to do a big artistic program. Its like her heart-and her mind-arent in her skating. If she tries a piece of music that has been done so well by other skaters, its going to make her look less good than if she chose something that people dont instantly think of as a beautiful program done by another skater.

[PrettyLayBack]

Bolero is beautiful beautiful music. One of my fav's. But I agree I don't think Michelle could do it justice. It doesn't suit her to me. I think Sasha would skate wonders with it.

[skatepixie]

I agree. Another thought I had (after posting) is that if Chris does it, it would be even more likely for her to be compared with what Jane and he did with the music. While I dont like Torvil and Dean, a lot of people do and many consider that their best program. Its kind of asking for people to say she doesnt meet standard.

[HoneyGalJ]

Actually, wasn't Sasha originally going to use Swan Lake as her short? I remember in an interview, she said that they were going to use it as her short, but that TT thought it would be a shame to waste such lovely music by cutting it into a small piece...does anyone remember this?
Hmm I didn't hear that. Thanks for the correction.

[ouridol]

I do remember that too. Did TT and Sasha actually coreograph Mask of Z before Galina said no? Or did they just pick out the music cuts? I really like Mask of Z and Sasha could probably do a good job with it.

[danibellerika]

I think they were choreographing. I also think sasha could have done a great job. I wonder if she planned to wear a mask or something(the on that only covers the eyes).

[AxelAnnie]

There is a rumor flying around (MKF and Figure Skating Universe) that Michelle is not only using Bolero as her LP music, but that the program is being choreographed by Chris Dean......Anyone have any info on this?

If it's true, I think it's a bad choice.......
Why do you think that would be a bad choice?

[SashaTheGreat]

I do. I remember that there was talk of Sasha using Mask of Zorro as the lp and SL as the short, but Sasha's mom didn't really like it so her and TT and Sasha decided to go with SL as the LP.



Where did that came from? I don't remember any talks about "Mask of Zorro" LP. Sasha wrote in her journal that it was Tatiana, who wanted Sasha to skate to the "Swan Lake" music, an idea Sasha didn't like in the beginning, but went ahead with it because of TT's insistence.

I do recall Sasha's plans to skate to a "Tango" music, which in my understanding could have been her SP, which was choreographed by Igor Shpilbandt. But she kept Malaguena, and concentrated on the choreographing of the SL instead.

[ouridol]

Sasha originally planned on using her "tango" piece as an exhibition, I am pretty sure. She was going to use swan lake as her short but then she decided to use it as her LP because TT said it was a shame they couldn't use more cuts. At first Sasha was skeptical because it was overused (see Sasha DOES think a few things are overused ;) ) but then TT said they would use original cuts few people've heard before.

Since she decided to use SL as a LP, they had nothing left for the SP and couldn't decide on anything better than Mal so they stuck with that.

I really wish sasha did Mask of Zorro, even if it was a second exh. or something. I'm sure it would be different then her spanish/classical selections and she would probably have lots of fun...oh I can imagine her being Catherine Zeta Jones. (whom I think is beautiful). :D

Why did Galina say no? Too masculine for her petite ballerina? :cool: Actually it would work well now, considering you can wear pants. I am still curious how Sasha would look in pants..maybe something trendy would look really cute on her when she's skating.. :sasha:

[mkscskaterfan]

Why do you think that would be a bad choice?

I think it would immediately draw comparisons to Torvil and Dean's performance .... especially if Chris Dean is choreographing it. And I don't think that would be good for Michelle. Not to mention that I didn't especially like Chris' previous collaboration with Michelle (Rush).

[ouridol]

Rush is one of MK's programs I've never seen...details please?

[phoenixxx]

You can download Rush here. (http://cruelladekwan.com/2000.htm)

It wasn't too well received by the judges and skating fans. Actually, the two times Michelle has done something different (Rush, MM), they weren't well received by the judges and skating fans. Granted, the one time Michelle performed MM it was flawed, but skating fans just didn't like the program. So, she returned to old Michelle (EoE, SotBS) and was deemed "boring" again.

[ouridol]

Oh thanks, I forgot about that site. I'll try to do as much as I can when I have the time :D

[IceAlisa]

Thanks for the link to Rush. Quintessential, pre-TFB, pre-Aranjuez boring Michelle. Yawn. Didn't see much exciting choreo as I expected from Christopher Dean, but then I heard that Frank and MK watered down his original version.

[skatepixie]

I just watched Rush. My reaction was "what choreo?" Really. It felt like a bad exhibition number with fake flurty shoulder rolls and stuff like that. Nothing to write home about.

MM looked like it had been thown together and didnt seem that "diffrent" a program from anything else. I fail to see the uniqueness of it.

[phoenixxx]

looked like it had been thown together

Again? *sighs....

I wasn't even a big fan of MM, but it's totally "different". Maybe it's because the music was so bizarre and jarring. It definitely had potential. Too bad she only performed it once.

[skatepixie]

The *music* was different. The program wasnt. It was still crossovers and jumps with no fealing. She had a little fire in parts, but really it was the general same ol MK skating.

[phoenixxx]

Jump with feeling? Well, that's a new one. How does one jump with feeling exactly? And feeling of what? Sadness? Happiness? Anger? And how would one distinguish these feelings as the skaters are about to takeoff?

Maybe it's just me, but that program definitely had in betweens. I just wasn't a fan of the music.


but really it was the general same ol MK skating.
And that's a bad thing? ;)

[kim]

I do not think Bolero is her long, someone sent that out in pm's on ezboard.
I think Michelle can give any music justice, I just won't believe it till it is annouced by her or the media.

[honey827]

Phoenixxx Rush is one of my fave programs that Michelle has done loved the music and you are not alone I thought the inbetweens (or the choreography )suited the mood of the music. On the other hand MM was not my fave the music is an aquired taste although the choreography was pretty good.

[IceAlisa]

And that's a bad thing? ;)

Yes it is a bad thing for some of us here. For example, MK skating elicited uncontrollable yawning in me prior to her 2003 season. I could never understand what the big hoopla was all about. There wasn't one memorable moment in her program except may be for the COE spiral, IMO.

Then she did TFB in 2003 and I absolutely loved it. It was a different MK, fiery, powerful and sexy. I liked Aranjuez too but then she set it to different music and wore another Vera Wang and called it Tosca. And she'd only do 5 triples (or was it 6 at Nats?). And she only skated in two major events which I didn't appreciate. So that dampened my newly found admiration for her during the 2004 season. But I am ready to like her again if she stops taking the path of least resistance in 2005.

[ouridol]

Yes it is a bad thing for some of us here. For example, MK skating elicited uncontrollable yawning in me prior to her 2003 season. I could never understand what the big hoopla was all about. There wasn't one memorable moment in her program except may be for the COE spiral, IMO.

Then she did TFB in 2003 and I absolutely loved it. It was a different MK, fiery, powerful and sexy. I liked Aranjuez too but then she set it to different music and wore another Vera Wang and called it Tosca. And she'd only do 5 triples (or was it 6 at Nats?). And she only skated in two major events which I didn't appreciate. So that dampened my newly found admiration for her during the 2004 season. But I am ready to like her again if she stops taking the path of least resistance in 2005.
She did do 6 triples at Nationals. Personally I loved Aranjuez but I felt like she could've squeezed just a little more coreo into it. I DID Not like Tosca. It was just blah IMHO all the way through because it was the same facial expressions, arm movements, etc etc. I hope she surprises us all next season.

[IceAlisa]

I am sure she knows better than to run on toe picks with a pained expression. Skaters should start getting deducted for that move, I swear... :D

[Skatingfreak]

Different people have different tastes, and thats perfectly ok. I, for one, loved Michelle's skating before 2003. Or maybe before 2002, actually (I wasn't a big fan of Scherezade). She was great in 2003 as well, but not so great this past year. I have to agree with Ice Alisa; she definitely took the easy route this past year and it was boring.
I dunno about Bolero though. I though Rush had some interesting moves, and MM was definitely bizarre (but I sort of like the music). I think if its true that Chris Dean is choreographing it, it might be a step foward for her, rather than another season spent doing a recycled program to different music. But then again, this is Bolero, which Torvill and Dean made their own. I think she should keep Dean as a choreographer, and pick music thats juuust slightly less well known. But thats if this rumor is true, of course.

[AxelAnnie]

I don't know about the rumor, but I did think of this: If Christopher Dean choreographed Rush, and Michelle watered it down and then dumped it, why would he choreograph his signature program for her?

If Michelle is going to really compete in these next two year (and showing up at her annual crowning, in my opinion does not count as competing - not when you have everyone else risking their bodies and spirits week after week travelling the globe and putting themselves on that ice to be judged and evaluated) - she is, IMHO, going to have to start listening to people again. She will need to have two great programs which are complex, interesting, unique and demanding. She will have to overcome the perception that she has been resting since Nagano-----and she really has been technically and emotionally.

Personally, I don't think she will want to (even if she is physically able to - think Boitano, Witt, Petrenko and Browning) do what she will have to do to get on a technical level with the Japanese, Sasha, Jenny and Irina (if she is able to compete). Michelle has not competed with the COP - and I suspect what she will find is that her slow spins, low jumps, and simple choreo will not hold her in good stead.

Rush, at least, was a stretch for her. She could have taken that program and continued to work on it and grow it, and make herself and it stronger. However, she got some flak, and dumped it. I just hope Michelle either rises up to meet the challanges, or goes off quitely into the night. I don't watch her do an Eldridge or Stojko. I am a big fan of athletes retiring when they are on top of the mountain....I hate that slide down the other side.

[IceAlisa]

I just watched the MM and have to say that IMO, that program had interest and potential. It was the GPF performance and I absolutely HATED the comment that MK needs to go back to mainstream which came after she finished...Comments like these could be responsible for MK being so conservative and recycling her programs and not trying new moves. GRRRR....

I thought that whatever choreo that was in MM was different and the music was different, I liked it. But it was a new program for her at the time and it showed, she wasn't that comfortable with it. In time, this could be a very cool, original program. And it had CHOREO!!! Wow.

[ouridol]

I just watched the MM and have to say that IMO, that program had interest and potential. It was the GPF performance and I absolutely HATED the comment that MK needs to go back to mainstream which came after she finished...Comments like these could be responsible for MK being so conservative and recycling her programs and not trying new moves. GRRRR....

I thought that whatever choreo that was in MM was different and the music was different, I liked it. But it was a new program for her at the time and it showed, she wasn't that comfortable with it. In time, this could be a very cool, original program. And it had CHOREO!!! Wow.
I think we are getting so desperate for innovative MK programs that anything relatively branched-out or 'different' for her is an accomplishment. :D

[IceAlisa]

you could be right, ouridol! :p

[phoenixxx]

She will have to overcome the perception that she has been resting since Nagano-----and she really has been technically and emotionally.

Since Nagano? Not sure about that. She did FoC and Ariane the next season, arguably two of her most challenging programs. Especially Ariane. If you've never seen it, you should. I think Sandra Bezic said it was the most technically demanding skate Michelle has ever done. And then you have TRV, which was just technical perfection. And EoE, which was emotional perfection. :D

Personally, I think she's been resting since SLC. I think the past two seasons, Michelle is just kind of evaluating where she wants to be in her life right now. If she decides to stick round for '06, I think we'll see a different Michelle next season. At least, that's what I'm hoping.

[SkaterGem]

The program of MK's i just rewatched and thought wow, was Song of the Black Swan from 2001 Worlds. Her Boot split, she went on, landed GREAT triple-triple, 2 triple lutzs with no flutz and imo had great choreography, if she were to bring that back she'd do well under the CoP because she did a spin where she span the wrong way. Download it and watch it, i think you might agree with me.

ets : or TOTALLY disagree with me! :lol:
:sasha:

[AxelAnnie]

Since Nagano? Not sure about that. She did FoC and Ariane the next season, arguably two of her most challenging programs. Especially Ariane. If you've never seen it, you should. I think Sandra Bezic said it was the most technically demanding skate Michelle has ever done. And then you have TRV, which was just technical perfection. And EoE, which was emotional perfection. :D

Personally, I think she's been resting since SLC. I think the past two seasons, Michelle is just kind of evaluating where she wants to be in her life right now. If she decides to stick round for '06, I think we'll see a different Michelle next season. At least, that's what I'm hoping.
Oh - I should have been more specific. I meant that she has not meet the technical "gauntlet" thrown down by both Tara and Irina. It was pretty darn clear after Nagano, that Michelle could no longer rely second mark to bolster the first mark. Tara soundly outskated Michelle with both her vibrancy and her Loop/Loop and triple/triple sequence. And, Irina then won most of their head to head SP competitions, right up until SLC....and some are still scratching their heads over that.

In the run-up to SLC, MK did not up the tech end of her skating. Why? not sure. Either couldn't, or didn't think she needed to. Either way, it is four years later, others are wizzing ahead with the jumps, footwork, spins, etc., and we have yet to see a re-tooling from Michelle. She will need more for Turino that she needed for SLC. Will she rise to the challenge (a la Irina after Nagano)? I guess we will see.

[IceAlisa]

You guys peaked my interest, so I will download Ariane. However, I once said to an MK fan that I only liked her 2003 programs and she recommended that I watch Salome and other MK greatest hits. I remember being only slightly less bored than usual. We'll see. :cool:

[phoenixxx]

Ariane at World Pros (her debut) was better than her Nats. one. Just a heads up.

[attyfan]

I thought that MK had picked up the technical gauntlet thrown down by Tara and Irina. Between Nagano and SLC, she added the 3/flip to the SP, and, landed clean 3/3s in both 2000 and 2001 (in 2000, she was the only woman to do so) More importantly, since SLC, what skaters have consistently landed clean 3/3s? Next season should be really interesting, especially since (I hope) Irina and Elena should be healthy.

[SMAgal0408]

I think an MK program to "Bolero" would be interesting...maybe not a memorable program, but interesting. I would really like to see her skate to Vanessa-Mae's "Toccata el Fuge" because it's got a lot of her qualities in it. It's dramatic, overpowering, beautiful, absorbing, conflicting, and, well, great music!! I think it'll be interesting to see what she does this year...

[phoenixxx]

Where has this thread turned nasty?

[SashaSpiral]

Yeah, I don't see the nastiness. Everyone's been very polite so far. Anyway, I hope this rumor's not true. I don't think anyone should skate to anyone else's signature piece. JMO.

[mkscskaterfan]

Yeah, I don't see the nastiness. Everyone's been very polite so far. Anyway, I hope this rumor's not true. I don't think anyone should skate to anyone else's signature piece. JMO.

Perhaps because the discussion has made a turn into the "Sashafans typical -- Michelle needs to step it up rant" is the reason why some people view the thread as having made a nasty turn. ;)

AND YES I KNOW everyone is entitled to their opinion, and if people think that Michelle's skating is a snoozefest then they have every right to say so.... I am just offering my opinion of some of the comments on the thread......

[wvgal57]

It's not true. Also, this thread has not turned nasty at all. Differing opinions, no nastiness.

[danibellerika]

Where did that came from? I don't remember any talks about "Mask of Zorro" LP. Sasha wrote in her journal that it was Tatiana, who wanted Sasha to skate to the "Swan Lake" music, an idea Sasha didn't like in the beginning, but went ahead with it because of TT's insistence.

I do recall Sasha's plans to skate to a "Tango" music, which in my understanding could have been her SP, which was choreographed by Igor Shpilbandt. But she kept Malaguena, and concentrated on the choreographing of the SL instead.

It was a skater who was at Sasha's rink and even was on ice with her(this was at Newtington). She posted about it at another message board. She was a very trustworthy source. She knew that Sasha was going to be doing R&J at Sears. When she pitched Mask of Zorro lp/Swan Lake sp to us, this was when she mentioned all of this. She also said that Sasha got a little mad at her when she told the public since things hadn't been finalized yet (and as we now know, things were NOT finalized). I think that when Sasha's mom said she didn't want it, TT probably thought about making SL the lp instead of thinking up a whole new long while still having SL as the short. I think Sasha didn't mention her mom because she didn't have to.

And adding in my two cents as a mod, I'm not seeing nastiness here. Our usual complaints about wanting Michelle to step it up are in here, but you can almost predict that will happen when it comes to programs and Michelle.

[AxelAnnie]

You guys peaked my interest, so I will download Ariane. However, I once said to an MK fan that I only liked her 2003 programs and she recommended that I watch Salome and other MK greatest hits. I remember being only slightly less bored than usual. We'll see. :cool:
Where do we look at the download?

[Skatingfreak]

I think from 1996-2001 Michelle had different, beautiful, and always innovative programs. She used music that hadn't been used much before (or sometimes not at all) and I loved Lori Nichol's choreography. Salome, Taj Mahal, Lyra, Ariane, The Red Violin, SOTBS...I love all of those programs. I didn't think much of Scheherezade, and Aranjuez was very good. Tosca stunk, but I liked the costume. I just hope she raises the bar again...She disappointed me so much this season and I think she deserved her placement at worlds. Ergh, I'm just babbling...but anyways, hopefully Rafael is convincing her that she HAS to work harder this season in order to attain what she wants. IF the rumor is true, maybe he suggested Chris Dean as a choreographer...

[ouridol]

It was a skater who was at Sasha's rink and even was on ice with her(this was at Newtington). She posted about it at another message board. She was a very trustworthy source. She knew that Sasha was going to be doing R&J at Sears. When she pitched Mask of Zorro lp/Swan Lake sp to us, this was when she mentioned all of this. She also said that Sasha got a little mad at her when she told the public since things hadn't been finalized yet (and as we now know, things were NOT finalized). I think that when Sasha's mom said she didn't want it, TT probably thought about making SL the lp instead of thinking up a whole new long while still having SL as the short. I think Sasha didn't mention her mom because she didn't have to.

And adding in my two cents as a mod, I'm not seeing nastiness here. Our usual complaints about wanting Michelle to step it up are in here, but you can almost predict that will happen when it comes to programs and Michelle.
Sasha got mad?

[mkscskaterfan]

Where do we look at the download?

This website has a couple of Ariane programs. I think the World Pro version is better than the Nationals version, so I would recommend downloading that one

http://www.cruelladekwan.com/1999.htm

[SashaTarafan]

I think from 1996-2001 Michelle had different, beautiful, and always innovative programs. She used music that hadn't been used much before (or sometimes not at all) and I loved Lori Nichol's choreography. Salome, Taj Mahal, Lyra, Ariane, The Red Violin, SOTBS...I love all of those programs. I didn't think much of Scheherezade, and Aranjuez was very good. Tosca stunk, but I liked the costume. I just hope she raises the bar again...She disappointed me so much this season and I think she deserved her placement at worlds. Ergh, I'm just babbling...but anyways, hopefully Rafael is convincing her that she HAS to work harder this season in order to attain what she wants. IF the rumor is true, maybe he suggested Chris Dean as a choreographer...

I agree, Michelle's best prograsm IMO were Salome and Taj Mahal..loved them both! I didn't care for Lyra, I really found it boring.

I have been thinking about the Bolero/Chris Dean rumor...if it were true then maybe this will be good and add a little spark and excitement to the season...With Chris Dean choreographing a piece of music that he once used and became his signature piece is gonna bring a lot of attention to Michelle and her new program. I think Michelle would do just fine with the music. We will see.

I for one am just DYING to know what the new music/choreographer choices are....when will we find out???!! :(

[sydney]

Sasha got mad?

I wouldn't be surprised if she was somewhat upset. I know I probably would, but at least it didn't wind up much of anywhere else than internet forums (I hope).

[ouridol]

I agree, Michelle's best prograsm IMO were Salome and Taj Mahal..loved them both! I didn't care for Lyra, I really found it boring.

I have been thinking about the Bolero/Chris Dean rumor...if it were true then maybe this will be good and add a little spark and excitement to the season...With Chris Dean choreographing a piece of music that he once used and became his signature piece is gonna bring a lot of attention to Michelle and her new program. I think Michelle would do just fine with the music. We will see.

I for one am just DYING to know what the new music/choreographer choices are....when will we find out???!! :(
We will probably find out in August or September.... ;)
Feels like forever , huh?

[IceAlisa]

this thread is nasty??? Because we are critical of Michelle and think that she needs to up the ante??? Us and the rest of the skating world, including Michelle herself and excepting the uberfans. Whoever said that is either highly biased or just hasn't seen threads that trash Sasha and other skaters on other boards. The expression "ugly fat fingers" comes to mind.

We are having a very polite and respectful conversation, compared to some truly :twisted: stuff out there.

"saying anything less than the most glowing of praise for Michelle Kwan is punishable under the Patriot Act." If that's how you view things, than yeah, we are guilty as charged.
Instead, may be the poster could defend their point with facts instead of flinging accusations.

"Sashafans typical -- Michelle needs to step it up rant" .....
for your information, we don't rant, we discuss. And you are being RUDE to all of us.

[mkscskaterfan]

for your information, we don't rant, we discuss. And you are being RUDE to all of us.

definition of "Rant" from my Websters: (V) (1) To speak or write in an angry manner; (2) To utter or express with extravagance; (3) Wild or uproarious merriment.

I think it is fair to say that quite a few people at Sashafans have posted that they passionately abhor Michelle Kwan's skating --- And I think it is also fair to say that quite a few of these posts critisizing Michelle's boring skating have contained a bit of anger and a snarky tone..... I feel it is everyone's right to express their opinion, whatever that opinion may be. My post was simply to inform everyone that hearing the same old rant about Michelle, gets a bit boring for some of us.

I wasn't trying to be rude Ice Alisa, I was just expressing my own frustration with some of the opinions on this thread --- opinions that are not unique to this thread, opinions that have appeared on a number of other topics related to Michelle and that have become "typical"....that is all. I apologize if you felt personally offended....I was just participating in the "discussion"..... :confused:

By the way ---- I don't understand the first part of your post --- right before my quote --- was that directed to me? I don't remember saying that -- Or was that directed towards the other Michelle biased poster ?

[PrettyLayBack]

Typical...Have you seen what other boards say about Sasha?! All they do is trash her. I am not naming any boards. But I have not seen anything wrong with any of the posts thus far. If you don't like reading "typical" SashaFans stuff then I really suggest you go to a Michelle Kwan board. I am not trying to be rude.

[mkscskaterfan]

Typical...Have you seen what other boards say about Sasha?! All they do is trash her. I am not naming any boards. But I have not seen anything wrong with any of the posts thus far. If you don't like reading "typical" SashaFans stuff then I really suggest you go to a Michelle Kwan board. I am not trying to be rude.

Just for clarification: How is my opinion rude, but your's not? Did you even read my post? Because it seems to me that you zeroed in on the word "Typical" and ignored the rest of what I had to say

I will stop here because I fear the thread really is going way off course now ...

[phoenixxx]

Have you seen what other boards say about Sasha?! All they do is trash her.

I frequent (though not post at) all of the major fs boards (fsu, gskate, skatingforums, mkf) and that is not all they do. Maybe you've a read a thread where a couple of people have trashed certain skaters, but that is typical of every board (yes, even this one). Those few rotten apples ruin it for everyone else. Please don't board drag, as I have a strong suspicion about which board you're talking about.

I hope this thread doesn't get locked.

Anyways, back to what we were previous discussing, did you get to see Ariane IceAlisa?

[IceAlisa]

not yet, phoenixx, but I plan on it tomorrow and will certainly post my "rant" about it.

[Eldredgefan2001]

I am one who doubts that it's true! Considering that Chris Dean choreographs for SOI and Kwan skates for COI. Then there is the fact that he choreographed a SP for her before (RUSH) and she ditched it to go back to "EOE", without giving the program a chance. It just seems that he would be skeptical of working with her again. JMO!


Kathie

[IceAlisa]

OK, I saw the recommended version of Ariane. While I was not won over by it, it is definately a technically superior program to any of Michelle's recent efforts. 7 great triples! Choreography was present and well executed. Her spins were in a pretty bad shape though and took away from the program. I am glad she seems to be working on them now.

Overall, I didn't fall in love with it, it's just not in my taste but it is a very respectable program, from a skater who was really trying her best. Also, the choice of music was interesting and unique. A fine effort. I am starting to understand what my peeve with the earlier MK skating (as well as Tosca) is all about. It's never about the music or the character with certain exceptions, including Salome.

It's (almost) never a story, complete with a costume, a different persona for each character, a different presence and mood for each performance. No change in genre. I guess I like to see transformations like that of Sasha, from Sentmental Waltz to Carmen to Hernando's Hideaway to Malaguena to Swan Lake to Juliet and even to My Fair Lady. With Michelle with some notable exceptions, it's like the same very long performance with different dresses and different music and they are all about Michelle and not say, Tosca. May be that's what separates Michelle fans from Sasha fans.

[ICESKATERDUDE]

Interesting. But I'm not going to get worked up over something that is false (if it is). ;) I don't know how Michelle would do with Bolero since some of her coreography can be boring at times, and this piece is monotonous if you don't use it well. Oh well. We will see. :)
Those are my sentiments exactly. I hope that this isn't true because although using tosca was kind of odd as Ira had used it not too long ago, using Bolero would be unwise by any standards as in the best light its just plain played out imho. But if she could make a great program out of it (although I have serious doubts) it'd be a credit to her. The best interpretation of bolero I've seen besides Torvill and Deans was Lucinda Ruh's. She used it for 2003 Diva's on Ice and I'm sure something else, I have it on my comp from rinkside, its brilliant. :p

[ouridol]

Those are my sentiments exactly. I hope that this isn't true because although using tosca was kind of odd as Ira had used it not too long ago, using Bolero would be unwise by any standards as in the best light its just plain played out imho. But if she could make a great program out of it (although I have serious doubts) it'd be a credit to her. The best interpretation of bolero I've seen besides Torvill and Deans was Lucinda Ruh's. She used it for 2003 Diva's on Ice and I'm sure something else, I have it on my comp from rinkside, its brilliant. :p
Oh yeah I remember Lucinda Ruh's. How could I forget??! I liked her interpretation as well..but then again she is awesome :D If Michelle can bring this piece alive, then it will indeed be a credit to her. However lately with her efforts, a larger part of me is nagging that she won't.

[azncarrot]

It's (almost) never a story, complete with a costume, a different persona for each character, a different presence and mood for each performance. No change in genre.

Red Violin was another change (She played the part of the violin), as was Song of the Black Swan. I think Aranjuez was suppoed to be a bullfighter (if the costume is taken into account.) Of these three, I liked Red Violin the best.

[danibellerika]

Haven't see Black Swan but I did see Red Violin from Worlds. It was another rather blah program for me. I didn't really find that she interpret anything. All I think I remember was the frog spread eagle thing in the footwork. Nevertheless, out of 10 years of competing, when you can only pick a few programs that you think allow Michelle to branch out, it's not so promising. I'm still sold that TFB was Michelle's best program in terms of branching out. Still though, even that one didn't really interpret anything. It was just Michelle with attitude (though I still loved it).

[IceAlisa]

I second that about the Red Violin. What exactly makes it a program about the violin? besides the music of course. This could have been easily skated to any other soft music. There is nothing of the character portrayal, the theatrical element that I want to see. Typical Michelle, but she did have the 3T/3T which to me makes it yet another respectable but unexciting program. Off to watch SOTBS.

[danibellerika]

Just saw SOTBS. I think that one was much better than Violin. There were a lot more things to remember from it. I might even go out on a limb and say that I liked it, but for some reason TFB popped in my mind while watching it.

[IceAlisa]

I really like the choreo in SOTBS. If Michelle went back to Lori it would "hold her in good stead" to quote Uncle Dick. But Lori has Jenny now, so...It was a very elegant program, but when it comes to the "elegant Michelle", my favorite is still FOG. So far big blah for the Red Violin (great jumps thought!) and props for SOTBS.

[loveskating]

I loved Red Violin...it had a 3/3 toe loop in it, and she landed a beaut at Worlds, just pefection...plus I loved the use of spiral-like movements in the beginning of the program...and all the very strong turns (dead on center). throughout I also loved seeing her do a charlote on the flat...meeting Sasha's challenge at worlds. I loved the "beastie" spreadeagle, thought it was perfection...and she was both sad and totally undaunted, which is what that music is about.

I'm not sure its smart for her to use Chris...he is great, but not necessariy with her...if she is that is.

[AxelAnnie]

definition of "Rant" from my Websters: (V) (1) To speak or write in an angry manner; (2) To utter or express with extravagance; (3) Wild or uproarious merriment.

I think it is fair to say that quite a few people at Sashafans have posted that they passionately abhor Michelle Kwan's skating --- And I think it is also fair to say that quite a few of these posts critisizing Michelle's boring skating have contained a bit of anger and a snarky tone..... I feel it is everyone's right to express their opinion, whatever that opinion may be. My post was simply to inform everyone that hearing the same old rant about Michelle, gets a bit boring for some of us.

I wasn't trying to be rude Ice Alisa, I was just expressing my own frustration with some of the opinions on this thread --- opinions that are not unique to this thread, opinions that have appeared on a number of other topics related to Michelle and that have become "typical"....that is all. I apologize if you felt personally offended....I was just participating in the "discussion"..... :confused:

By the way ---- I don't understand the first part of your post --- right before my quote --- was that directed to me? I don't remember saying that -- Or was that directed towards the other Michelle biased poster ?
. I think you are off base. This is probably the most positive site around. The people here are consistently polite, friendly and measured in their comments. Given your name, I would assume that your tolerance of criticism of Michelle is a bit low. You have lots of company......for some reason many people don't deal happily with a discussion of criticism of Michelle. And, that is so silly.....for all of Michelle's strengths, she----like the rest of the field----has faults! Some people find her skating boring....so? What is interesting, to me, is to discuss a viewpoint, and to learn from what people have to say. I have learned so much about skating by discussing the why and how of various skaters strengths and weaknesses...their technique, their faults, and what goes into evaluating a various element.

So, this is just the wrong place to talk about posters being unfair in their comments. Could we please return to the topic? It was quite interesting.

[AxelAnnie]

I second that about the Red Violin. What exactly makes it a program about the violin? besides the music of course. This could have been easily skated to any other soft music. There is nothing of the character portrayal, the theatrical element that I want to see. Typical Michelle, but she did have the 3T/3T which to me makes it yet another respectable but unexciting program. Off to watch SOTBS.
Did you see this movie? I loved this program, and thought it was dead on in evoking the joy and haunting sorrow of the story and the music. She actually skated the music.....something she hasn't done a lot of in years. It was a very "adult" program, (this is her "short hair" year, right?). I was excited to watch her move ahead and evolve as a woman and a skater. Like watching Tara move from "Rainbow" (and I loved that) to the program with which she won the World Pro title. She was brilliant, and you could so see her growth. That is the kind of skating I like to see. It was also risky, as was RUSH. I applaud that, too.

[IceAlisa]

yeah, I did see the movie and I liked it! But I didn't see a lot of uniqueness in MK's interpretation of it. It was a lovely program (yeah, the short hair) but indistinguishible from other MK lyrical pieces. I much prefer her Salome and SOTBS. They stand out from the rest IMO.

[danibellerika]

yeah, I did see the movie and I liked it! But I didn't see a lot of uniqueness in MK's interpretation of it. It was a lovely program (yeah, the short hair) but indistinguishible from other MK lyrical pieces. I much prefer her Salome and SOTBS. They stand out from the rest IMO.

100% agreed. Salome and SOTBS are definately her best long programs.

[sk8fanatic]

. I think you are off base. This is probably the most positive site around. The people here are consistently polite, friendly and measured in their comments.

Are you kidding?! I come here because I enjoy Sasha's skating and want to find the latest info about her, but there are a number of very negative unfriendly and rude posters here. These people aren't the majority, but they are very vocal about bashing other female skaters besides Sasha and crowning Sasha as some sort of skating saint.
I find the bashing here to be much, much worse than MKF which is called by SashaFans the worst site around.

[icesk8rchiq]

I think it would be way cool if we moved on (we get it- people bash), and stayed on topic. ;)

[Red Dog]

Are you kidding?! I come here because I enjoy Sasha's skating and want to find the latest info about her, but there are a number of very negative unfriendly and rude posters here. These people aren't the majority, but they are very vocal about bashing other female skaters besides Sasha and crowning Sasha as some sort of skating saint.
I find the bashing here to be much, much worse than MKF which is called by SashaFans the worst site around.

Why can't we just get along? MKF has its share of bad apples too, in fact, you could say the same about any internet forum. Just don't open the gushing threads and you should be fine.

ETA: Back on topic, I don't buy any of these rumors. It just sounds odd to me.

[danibellerika]

Are you kidding?! I come here because I enjoy Sasha's skating and want to find the latest info about her, but there are a number of very negative unfriendly and rude posters here. These people aren't the majority, but they are very vocal about bashing other female skaters besides Sasha and crowning Sasha as some sort of skating saint.
I find the bashing here to be much, much worse than MKF which is called by SashaFans the worst site around.

MKF has a lot more members than us which means there is a larger ratio of nasty posters. I have seen some unnacceptable stuff here, but over at MKF(before I stopped bothering even looking), some things didn't even compare. Apparently it didn't change much after I stopped lurking, based on what I've been told. Pages upon pages here and there about Sasha. Almost none of it is good. Subjects like Robin fondling her. Some comments would take gold when it came to being unfriendly, rude, and negative. I think I read that someone said that Sasha has "short, fat, and ugly hands." If that's not rude, then I don't know what you're looking for. Some of the posters even complain that they talk about Sasha more than anybody else almost. I could go on, but why waste the time?

You know what. It's been 6 pages. This thread has been cooked enough. I am making this fair warning. If I see anything else related to MKF, FSU or whatever, the thread will be automatically closed and there will be no more discussion because people don't know how to move on and get back on topic. This will be the first example.