Michelle Kwan doing Skate America!!!!

[sk8ing_lady2001]

Hooray! Good luck to her, from me. :)

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2002/10/18/sports1905EDT0323.DTL

[Dustin]

I have to say this, I really don't think this is fair if the USFSA/ISU made an exception for her. I don't want this to sound like a bash, but if she gets to do this one without doing another GP event (which she must do because she is seeded and does not have an injury) I will be very angry with the USFSA. National/World champion or not, rules are rules and I don't think exceptions should be made like this. She missed her deadline and then decides to do it a week before the event? How many other skaters would be allowed to do that?

Yes, Sarah dropped out leaving the field very weak, but that doesn't change the rules... well I guess $ does change everything. :mad:

[forevermkfan]

Yay!!! GO MICHELLE!!!!!!! :p :p

[Always_Sasha]

I totally agree with you Dustin. As much as I like her, I don't think that this is right.

[AxelAnnie]

Originally posted by Dustin
I have to say this, I really don't think this is fair if the USFSA/ISU made an exception for her. I don't want this to sound like a bash, but if she gets to do this one without doing another GP event (which she must do because she is seeded and does not have an injury) I will be very angry with the USFSA. National/World champion or not, rules are rules and I don't think exceptions should be made like this. She missed her deadline and then decides to do it a week before the event? How many other skaters would be allowed to do that?

Yes, Sarah dropped out leaving the field very weak, but that doesn't change the rules... well I guess $ does change everything. :mad: Dustin, I couldn't agree with you more. It is disheartening to think that the USFSA hold the rules in such little regard. They had the judges changed to an International Panel so Michelle could compete at Campbells. How far are they going to go?

And, it is so unfair to the other competitors. If you were AP, and have been training for this event, part of what you take into account is who else will be there. Just for argument's sake, if Sarah was to be there, you might concede the technical mark, and concentrate on innovative artistry to win. If Michelle is coming, you should have been working on those 3/3's. It is blatently NOT FAIR to the skaters already going.

And, being the cynic that I am.....who exactly is surprised that Michelle is going? I am certainly not. I have been waiting for the announcement for months!

[Laura]

She couldn't have been planning this for months, unless she planned on Sarah getting injured as well.

[adrianchew]

AxelAnnie - I don't think this was planned, but an opportune moment that was capitalized upon.

The distressing part is that the USFSA and ISU's willingness to bend rules at times, when it suits them, doesn't exactly give too much promise to a single standard being applied to all skaters, and fairness goes out of the window. Its not Michelle's fault, and let's say Todd decided he wanted to skate again (since Tim is injured) and the ISU/USFSA paved the way, that too would be worrisome to me. :confused:

Once can only hope the judging will be fair in events - I would like to see AP and Jenny Kirk do well, and if they do have a performance that warrants a placement ahead of Kwan, that they will indeed get the marks and scores. There is nothing worse that to see those who have worked hard, not being rewarded, because another skater was held up (from what I've heard, this happens at lower level competitions even).

Other than that - its good that the folks who bought tickets get the maximum value for their money, and adding Michelle into the event certainly doesn't short change them with Sarah not being there.

[forevermkfan]

New Announcement from USFSA:

http://www.usfsa.org/skatamer02/news/kwanmich-add.htm

[AxelAnnie]

Hi Adrian.
I never doubted for a single moment that Michelle would compete at Skate America.
I realize that she did not create this opportunity (Sarah being injured), but she is taking advantage of it.......at the expense of whomever would have been going in her place.

That is one particular issue. I am sure that ABC had a real (not virtual) heart attack when Sarah pulled out. I can certainly understand the kind of pressure they may have put on the USFSA to bend the rules such that Michelle could compete.

As to fair competitions. Just keep in mind that the very Skating Federation that you are counting on to send judges to the competition, and judge fairly, is the federation which is playing loosey goosey with the rules.

Doesn't bode well for the integrity of figure skating.

NOTE: I have nothing against Michelle, or anybody else ...well figure skaters anyway...I am pretty mad at one of my kids LOL! I just get really angry when people change the rules to suit them.

[CartDi]

Yeah, I totally respect Michelle but if they make an exception for one skater, they'll have to make exceptions for all of them...

[amidala]

I couldn't have said it better myself, Dustin & Adrian :)
Personally, I think this decision to throw in Kwan as a means to not "lose" television viewers borders on the shameful. This isn't the pros, yet sometimes I feel like MK's presence w/in the eligibles (ranks) is making the sport turn away from the very "necesary" rules needed to still make it what it "is" supposed to be about. The fact that another skater (someone w/out superstar status could "never" get away w/ this makes you want to scratch your head and say: "Is this a sport I'm watching?" I don't understand why ABC cannot feature a SA that showcases the "new" talent, instead it will be something else(which I won't say what that is, I'll be nice), nothing against MK, but I still want AP to win SA, she's worked so hard on her new LP(in the post-season), I'd hate to see an inferior program win it over hers (or Jenny's for that matter). :)

[icesk8rchiq]

im sorry, but some people are acting all surprised, like this is the first time the rules have been bent in favor of one skater. this has been going on for many years, and not just in the higher levels...

[Maureen]

According, to the GMP rules posted on another tread, the
USFSA was within the rules when they asked Michelle to skate.
Any skater can replace a non-seeded skater with the permission of the ISU.

I am delighted that Michelle is going to skate at Skate America.
I don't think her participation will impact on the preparation of any of the skaters. Both Jenny and Ann Patrice having been
developing their programs for months. They both planned six or seven triples and spoke about triple/triple combinations last year so I'm sure they have the same goals this year.

I, for one, loved Michelle's program at the Campbells competition.
Yes, she only landed four triples, but she was IMO also the only
skater that skated to her music rather using it as a backdrop for her elements.

I hope all the USA skaters do well at Skate America. And, I glad
that Michelle is back!!

[Always_Sasha]

I agree with you for 95% of that. :) While after reading the rules, I do agree that Michelle can go, and the other skaters probably aren't that worried about having Michelle, I mean Sarah can do everything Michelle can, we saw that at the Olympics. I don't think that one is a larger threat than the other. The only part I disagree with is Michelle being the only skater to use her music. I felt that Sasha was above the rest when it came to musicality. Everything flowed with the music and went together perfectly. She had the best expression by far. But this is just my opinion, and we are all entitled to our own, so it's all good ;)

[icesk8rchiq]

i completely agree with maureen. i think that if the other skaters deserve to get higher, then they will. obviously, some judges dont like michelle and wont place her higher than she is supposed to be placed or lower. I also think that she completely deserved to win at campbells, because, in my opinion (!!), she skated much better than AP. I think AP's skating still needs maturity and I can't remember, but didn't she double more than one jump? If her performance should have won, I don't see how people thought the others skated. But I definitely think that Sarah Hughes was placed higher than she should have been. Even if Sasha fell on the lutz, and messed up the spin, Sarah IS the olympic champion, and should not be under-rotating triple flips and stepping out, and doubling others....

[ARTIQUE]

I hope that someone from the Kwan team is saving the MK @ Skate America threads all over the internet. Years from now, would'nt it be interesting to compare reality to some skating fans' perceptions!!!

[peachstatesk8er]

If it were any other skater would anyone be whining? I think it's completely unfair for anyone to hold Michelle responsible for the USFSA asking her to compete at SA. And, as someone already pointed out, it was within their rights to do so. She didn't barge in and cause Sarah's injury, she didn't worm her way into it at all; she was asked, she accepted, and I wish all competitors well. JK and AP can only benefit from competing against her, especially if one of them beats her. Imagine the headlines for them; it would be an awesome start for their season! I admit, I wish MK would go pro. But she's not and the USFSA did what was within their rights to do.
I do think it will be interesting to see who goes to SC now though...... :twisted:

edited for spelling....it's a monday, lol

[peachstatesk8er]

With all the hoopla on this and every other board, you'd think MK controlled the USFSA, the ISU, ABC Sports, and the rest of the media! LOL In fact, according to one particular poster I've had the pleasure of reading, some people actually believe that.


:eek:

And all this moaning over the rules being bent and changed......since when has skating ever been fair? If the rules were indeed bent, and apparently they weren't, does anyone think it would have been the first time that something unfair happened? Geez.

[kim]

we could go round and round all day on why and how, who is wrong and who is right, sarah is injured and michelle took her place, end of story. good luck to all the skaters!!!

[sashaskates]

Originally posted by kim
we could go round and round all day on why and how, who is wrong and who is right, sarah is injured and michelle took her place, end of story. good luck to all the skaters!!!

This is a discussion board so I don't see anything wrong with people talking about what's happening here.

I wouldn't think there was anything wrong with Michelle going to SA if she had agreed to do the grand prix. I personally think they should have replaced her with somebody who was doing the grand prix in the first place. Now that I see the rules though, I suppose it's okay legally, but to me, it isn't morally.

I also feel that michelle is given a large margin of error and hasn't improved much over the years. And I DON'T agree with the comment that Michelle was the only one who skated well to her music at Campbells - It looked to me, like she'd just thrown stuff together. And I know I'm gonna get a ton of responses from Kwan fans now about how great she is, but I just never really was a big fan of hers and this is my opinion!!!

ps please don't think I'm bashing michelle here - I'm really not! I'm just stating an opinion and there's nothing wrong with that.

[Dustin]

I'm mainly not upset with Michelle, but with the USFSA/ISU. Ok, so she turns down her spot as a seeded skater. Then when that seeding is given to another person she is allowed to be there as a replacement in only one event? Fair or not for any skater, I think that is something that must be fixed or we may be seeing it done more often in the future.

[AxelAnnie]

Originally posted by Bondo
While I think saying it is a question of morals is a bit strong, I do think this shows a lack of character from Michelle. She said she wasn't going to skate in the Grand Prix. She should have stuck to her word and let a younger, up and comer get the spots. Erik - (hey, I spelled it right) - you make some excellent points, and you articulate them clearly. I think (and have for a while) that this demonstrates a lack of character from Michelle, and for the reasons you state.

I think bending rules for Michelle is bad for skating, and bad for Michelle. Michelle knows it isn't right. She has been around long enough to know what is kosher and what isn't.

If I were a skater who had to commit in August (?) to what I would be doing with my skating year, I would be less than happy to find that Michelle could wait until 1 week before an event (after seeing a preview of programs, after knowing who would be competing, and who had dropped) and decide to "drop-in".

Allowing a different standard for one skater, weakens integrity of figure skating ----and figure skating, if to be taken at all seriously, can't take too many more hits in that department.

[peachstatesk8er]

Originally posted by AxelAnnie
Erik - (hey, I spelled it right) - you make some excellent points, and you articulate them clearly. I think (and have for a while) that this demonstrates a lack of character from Michelle, and for the reasons you state.

I think bending rules for Michelle is bad for skating, and bad for Michelle. Michelle knows it isn't right. She has been around long enough to know what is kosher and what isn't.

If I were a skater who had to commit in August (?) to what I would be doing with my skating year, I would be less than happy to find that Michelle could wait until 1 week before an event (after seeing a preview of programs, after knowing who would be competing, and who had dropped) and decide to "drop-in".

Allowing a different standard for one skater, weakens integrity of figure skating ----and figure skating, if to be taken at all seriously, can't take too many more hits in that department.



OMG, please get your facts straight, AA. She did not "decide to drop in", she was asked (by a governing body of the sport no less) to participate.

[Certainly Sasha]

And, excuse me, but since none of us were personally there, how do we know for sure that other skaters weren't ask to take Sarah's place but they declined?
Even if that wasn't the case, the USFSA did what they thought was best for this event. It really isn't the end of the universe. We will survive !:p

[Lanternlight]

Sarah was not a seeded skater either, due to skipping worlds. Michelle was not a seeded skater because of not planning to do the Grand Prix, until she was asked by the USFSA. The rules state that a substitute for a non seeded skater can be anyone. No rules were broken here.

And Michelle did not just "drop in". She was asked. She didn't wait around to "preview programs". A top skater was injured, which Michelle couldn't have possibly known, unless she is a psychic. This is happenstance, nothing more.

[chelsea144]

I can't believe posters are saying that Michelle lacks character because she was gracious enough to compete at S.A. when asked. What a thing to say! I am delighted that she is skating. She will boost the television audience and more people will see all the ladies skate. This will benefit the skaters and figure skating in general. True fans of skating should appreciate this.

[Dustin]

Originally posted by Bondo
Is someone handing out a link to this thread in Michelle's forums? Why the sudden influx of rare posters so defensive about people being critical of Michelle. She could have said no to the USFSA since she had already announced that she wasn't going to go...thus she went back on her word. I'm not saying they bent the rules for her.

I invited some Sasha fans from other boards over here. They just happen to like Michelle too :)

A lot of you may remember peachstatesk8er and Lanternlight from the old forum on ezboard. ;)

[Sweet Revenge]

Excuse me Bondo, but would you get defensive if someone said that Sasha showed a lack of character? She's a beautiful skater but you have to admit that she does act like she owns the rink when she's warming up and doesn't mind hogging the space.

Or is that warning just for people that happen to like Michelle?

Michelle did not go back on her word. She didn't plan on doing SA but when she was asked by the officials, she graciously agreed. That's in no way showing a lack of character. Actually, it's just the opposite.

Is this a place where if you like Sasha you can't like Michelle too?

[HotIce]

Bondo,
We all belonged to the Sasha Ezboad forum.
We left because the board had taken on a very young and immature flavor.
Dustin has asked us to come back because he wants all ages and opinions on the board.
Peach, Lantern, etc. have been posting very logical, well thought out posts.
If anyone is posting with emotion, it is you.
But anyway, we are all Sasha fans and we are back to stay.
AA, you are starting to sound like David. There is no vast conspiricy at Skate America.
And by the way, I am not a Kwan fan, I can just see that the USFSA asked Michelle to skate and she agreed.
It's not really a big deal.

[adrianchew]

Welcome back - anyone see Oy recently? :?

[Always_Sasha]

I have to say that what Bondo says makes sense, but others opinions are good too. :) That's what discussion boards are all about. Giving your opinion and talking to others. I think that while this is sort-of a difficult subject, I don't think that anyone is bashing Michelle, as long as they explain their views, and not just say that they don't like what's going on. :)

[Lanternlight]

Actually, this issue really isn't about Sasha, who I haven't criticized at all, and why would I, as she is my other fav, besides Michelle? Yes, I admit that Michelle will come first for me, but I really do like Sasha's skating. Anyway, here it is irrelevant, as Sasha won't be at SA.

[Sweet Revenge]

These are your words, Bondo:

"Just a word that will help everyone out in these trickier discussions...it is ok to disagree, but don't get defensive about things."

I was just responding to your words as an explanation as to why some people were defending Michelle against bashing. And yes, I consider saying that she had a 'lack of character' because she graciously agreed to skate at SA bashing because it's totally untrue. Believe me, nothing is lost on me. I fully understand every word you type.

[peachstatesk8er]

Excuse me, not everyone here is from MKF. I rarely post there myself b/c I usually do not post at skater specific boards. They tend to breed extreme posting styles that I prefer to not deal with, thank you. We came over at the request of Dustin who thought it might be nice to have a. more adults, and b. more Sasha fans in general. I see that you take offense to this, Eric, so perhaps it was a mistake.

Sorry, Dustin, looks like we're not welcome here.

[chelsea144]

As for myself, I don't post much, mostly read the different threads. I also posted on Dustin's old board before this one was upscaled. This is a wonderful board, up to date and very informative. Just because I don't post much, (due to my work schedule), doesn't mean I don't like to keep current and will respond if I feel the topic is of special interest to me, or if I feel a skater is being unjustly characterized. (as was Michelle in this case). Sasha is my current favorite, but I do like many of the other ladies and feel their participation in figure skating, all of them, has merit.

[cienicsk8]

I agree with chelsea144.........
I get to read some, but haven't had much time to post.
I think we have to be open minded here, the season is starting up and many new people will find us.
And I, for one, want them here. I'm sure Dustin is in agreement.
What I enjoyed about last season was the diverse fan base that Sasha has.
We have Sasha fans that are Michelle fans, Sarah Fans, Angela Fans, Jenny fans, AP Fans, etc.
I want them all to feel welcome here.
As much as some folks might feel rules were bent for Michelle in this case, or whatever, you have to remember that Skate America is our federation's event and they have the right to invite whomever they choose to compete.
Some people are coming back after last season, and I don't want anyone attacking them because maybe you think they are newbies, trolls or whatever, just because they are defending other skaters they like.
Give everyone a fair shake, okay?
We all got along great last season on EZ board, why should this season be any different?
I have met some really cool fans of other skaters here, and I'd like to see them all here again.
I know I hate seeing negativity towards Sasha on other forums I visit.
Are we all clear?

[peachstatesk8er]

Originally posted by Bondo
Would it be considered bashing Michelle if I said she should go pro so other younger skaters can get opportunities and that staying elgible is greedy? I mean, is there anyway to say a non-positive comment without it being considered bashing?

I wouldn't call it bashing, I'd call it bizarre. If other skaters want opportunities, then they need to get out there and skate to win. Michelle nor anyone else is NOT stopping them from having any opportunities. It sure hasn't stopped Sarah and Sasha from doing well. Hasn't hurt Irina either. Staying elegible is not greedy, IMO, because it's far harder to stay in the game than to go pro. Would you call Weiss, Elvis, Butyrskaya, and Eldredge greedy also? Eldredge in particular has been in there far longer than MK and if Michelle is greedy, then what the heck do you call him? Just wondering.

...And before you go calling me defensive or whatever, you need to take a step back and really answer the questions I put before you. If you call Michelle greedy, but not Todd, then I think you might want to consider why exactly you're critical of one yet not the other.

[sashaskates]

IMO, this thread is starting to get out of hand. People are twisting what others have said into how they want to interpret it. Now, not everybody likes every skater, and I think people should be allowed to voice their opinions as long as they support their opinions. Not everybody has the same interests, and EVERYONE should respect that - people who've been here from the beginning and new people as well.

[peachstatesk8er]

Dude, I'd like nothing more than to see MK go pro but not because I think she's taking opportunities from other skaters. I'd just like to see the pro ranks get some new skaters.

Figure skaters used to go one maybe two Olympics, but that was when there was no $$ in the eligibles. Now they can still compete and earn just as much $$. Works out for all involved. The USFSA gets to keep their skaters longer and the skaters aren't as tempted to jump ship for more lucrative offers when they can sometimes earn MORE staying eligible. Skating has changed and we have to roll with the punches. We're going to have to get used to seeing skaters stick around longer whether we like it or not. Blame the USFSA for that one.

As for opportunities taken away from other skaters, I don't see any other skater that isn't already assigned to the GP circuit that could have taken on more. Nor do I think a spot at SA should be handed to some nobody that has yet to make a decent showing at Nats. I think SA and other GP events are for skaters that are PROVEN, not a reward for a skater that is virtually unknown. If these girls/guys want those spots and want to be the ones that are asked to fill in for a reigning Olympic Gold medalist when she gets injured, then by golly they need to step up to the plate and kick some booty on the National stage before getting something handed to them in the international circuit.

[adrianchew]

Originally posted by sashaskates

IMO, this thread is starting to get out of hand.

Topic reopened - let's try to make everyone feel welcome here, ok? ;)

[HotIce]

Nic,
You are always the voice of reason!
I wish I was as diplomatic as you are!

Bondo, Kwan is not taking a spot away from anyone because everyone else who is qualified already has Grand Prix assignments.
They can't just take a lower ranked skater and put her in there. They have to earn their spot.