Michelle Kwan pre-Worlds Interview

[IceAlisa]

I think this is interesting. I liked what MK had to say about her experience with pressure and how it adversely affects her performance, just like in Sasha's case. Michelle sounds hesitant about competing next season and is unsure about 2006.

here it is: http://www.usfsa.org/news/2002-03/kwan-teleconf.htm

[honey827]

Hey I agree with what Michelle said about not skating her best when she puts pressure on herself. I heard Sasha was going to give a teleconferece also can't wait to hear what she says.:D

[sk8ing_lady2001]

Thank you so much, for the nice interview with Michelle. :D

[SashaTheGreat]

"Assuming that I keep on competing, I think it (triple-triples) will be a must in terms of working at more jammed-packed programs with triples and triple-triples," she said. "Quads? Who knows what I’m capable of doing? As of now I don’t want to adjust my program."

Oh, OK, she's still pretty capable of doing 3/3's, and maybe even quads, who knows. It's just a simple matter of not wanting to over jam her programs, you see. :lol:

And why did Michelle even bring up a quad, to throw a jab at Sasha? (Since Sasha's the only female practicing it, on the senior level.) Like, oh sure, she's learning a quad. sal, but so far it's all talk, and I can brag too...

In my opinion MK have contradicted herself in this interview, she's talking again and again, that she's staying eligible is not just to win another gold medal, but since she's not going to up the ante of her technical skating (simply because she doesn't want to adjust her program), it leads me to a conclusion, that she's competing on the amateur level precisely for getting yet another trophy.

I also find it funny, how Miss Kwan speaks of herself in third person (she've done it in different interviews).

[Calidreamer119]

That was a very good article thanks for sharing it with us!

[GreekGoddess85]

very interesting so MK is working with Morozov
I think it is because Sasha worked with him and came
out with great programs and now Kwan realized
her programs needed tuning up from Nikolai
well Sasha has the better programs. Go Sasha
comaybe she will not stay until 2006.

[RisenAshes]

I think that both Michelle and Sasha have great programs and choreography. I think that both Michelle and Sasha can do great triple-triple combinations. I think that both Michelle and Sasha can struggle with pressure. I don't think that Michelle can do the quad, unlike Sasha. I don't want to ignore Michelle's great athletic ability, but I really don't think she can really pull off a quad. I just don't see it in her. It's just my opinion though. Who knows, maybe she's just keeping it a secret... :lol:

Newayz, good luck to BOTH Michelle and Sasha at Worlds!!!

[SashaSpiral]

Originally posted by SashaTheGreat
"Assuming that I keep on competing, I think it (triple-triples) will be a must in terms of working at more jammed-packed programs with triples and triple-triples," she said. "Quads? Who knows what I’m capable of doing? As of now I don’t want to adjust my program."

Oh, OK, she's still pretty capable of doing 3/3's, and maybe even quads, who knows. It's just a simple matter of not wanting to over jam her programs, you see. :lol:

And why did Michelle even bring up a quad, to throw a jab at Sasha? (Since Sasha's the only female practicing it, on the senior level.) Like, oh sure, she's learning a quad. sal, but so far it's all talk, and I can brag too...

Well, I agree that Michelle's probably not capable of doing a quad, but she probably could do a 3/3 if she put her mind to it; she's done them before. Maybe you don't like her skating, and that's fine, but she is a good technician, just not the best. I just don't get the part where you think that she's making a jab at Sasha by bringing up the quad. Personally, I don't think any of the elite skaters are mean, or try to make jabs at each other. Michelle's probably just joking about the quad part. Besides, there's nothing wrong with Michelle wanting to win another trophy. I'm sure Sasha can beat her if she doesn't lose her focus.

[SashaTheGreat]

How did you conclude that I don't like Michelle's skating? I'm just trying to read "in between the lines" of her interview, it's done to many skaters across the Net, and certainly to Sasha, who's every word is being overtly scrutinized.

I'm aware of the fact, that MK did 3/3's in the past, but according to HER OWN ACCOUNTS, she's not working on them presently, (which is fine, I just find an explanation, like not wanting to adjust her program to it, laughable). So, if she's not practicing her 3/3 jumps regularly, there's a very little chance that she's still able to pull off this kind of combination. And this is just my personal opinion, I could be wrong, of course.

Now, the quad part, I realize, that Michelle was probably asked about her jump content at Worlds, but I highly doubt anyone inquired about her going for the quad. And if she indeed was asked, she could have say that she doesn't try quad, instead of her mystifying "Who knows what I'm capable of"?

And of course, there's nothing wrong with a desire to win another trophy, why won't she just admit it, like it is? IMO, this interview raises questions, instead of answering them.

Wasn't the part, where MK happily chirped about her great working relationship with Morozov just heartwarming?

[loveskating]

Usually, its news when a female skater lands a quad or a 3 axel anywhere, any time...even on practise ice at the home rink, also at a competition.

Even when they are not on the podium, its news when skaters land a 3 axel in competition, too.

Any reports of Kwan landing a quad anywhere?

[IceAlisa]

I think sports psychologists recommend to the athlete to always sound positive, no matter what. I don't expect MK to come out and say:"no, I can't do the quad, neither am I comfortable enough with my 3/3 to put into a major competition" They just don't say stuff like that.
But I do find it a little hypocritical of her to say that she doesn't want anymore trophies. Of course, it pleases her to win, there's no question about it! I think it's expected. But it's important for PR to appear as if winning is not the point. Why then did she cry inconsolably in Nagano and in SLC?
On the other hand, I think while skating at the Nationals, MK was able to concentrate on her performance and not on the title. That is why she won it, IMO.

[zippythesqurl2]

I'm aware of the fact, that MK did 3/3's in the past, but according to HER OWN ACCOUNTS, she's not working on them presently, (which is fine, I just find an explanation, like not wanting to adjust her program to it, laughable). So, if she's not practicing her 3/3 jumps regularly, there's a very little chance that she's still able to pull off this kind of combination. And this is just my personal opinion, I could be wrong, of course.>>


Ho boy another debate! Michelle is probably still working on triple/triples in practice just because it isn't in the program means nothing. She could still be holding the 80% theory that Frank taught her. And I admire the fact that she doesn't feel the need to turn her programs into a jump-circus and lose focus on the artistic side of her program. The girl has been skating and winning for like 7 years, I think she knows her body and what she'll mentally be able to handle, to skate a clean program. After all what good is a triple-triple if you don't land it? One of the neat things about skating is that while jumps are required it is still artistic like ballet. It is a sport that enables people like Oksana to win over Nacy's 3/3s.


I also think you are trying to make a lot out of nothing. Awhile back when Michelle was the jumping bean she said she was working on quads and triple axles, like Tara had teased the idea of a quad toe so this is a road shes been down before. And also being a Sasha fan, knowing how much people twist her words and try and get into her head by "reading in between the lines" (which is silly, how on Earth do you know what she was thinking when she said that) And consantly having to defend your faness of Sasha, I would think you would be above stooping that low. To be a cliche- Two wrongs don't make a right, you end up going in circles. I didn't in any sense get that Michelle was sending a jab at Sasha, who know if there was a hidden message intended maybe it was to the girl in the Junior ranks who actually landed the jump! I think it is silly to turn THAT comment into an argument over Michelle's disdain for Sasha.

[SashaTheGreat]

Originally posted by zippythesqurl2

Ho boy another debate! Michelle is probably still working on triple/triples in practice just because it isn't in the program means nothing. She could still be holding the 80% theory that Frank taught her. And I admire the fact that she doesn't feel the need to turn her programs into a jump-circus and lose focus on the artistic side of her program. The girl has been skating and winning for like 7 years, I think she knows her body and what she'll mentally be able to handle, to skate a clean program.

A jump-circus? Isn't skating a sport? (Well, amateur skating is at least 50% about jumps.)

I'm sorry, but I didn't like that interview at all, I just haven't found Michelle being a forthcoming in it. Actually, this was a Press Conference, and if I'm correct, athletes are expected to truthfully tell what they plan in the program in the upcoming competition, and what kind of jumps they've been practicing. When Sasha was asked prior to Skate Canada, if she's working on 3-Lutz, she simply said "No."

The fact that MK has been winning for 7 years, doesn't hold her above criticism. And again, what's the summary of this interview? Michelle's not going to attempt 3/3 "not to alter her programs," she's not certain if she'll compete in the next season, but she already confirmed for the Campbelle's. She admitted that she'll only skate at the most important events, because competing extensively puts a lot of pressure on her, but isn't it true for everyone?

And she mentioned Morozov's advice (a choreographer) and not Mr. Williams's (a technical coach), regarding her jumps, and then the quad. Maybe it was supposed to be a joke, but still it came out on Sasha's expense.

[zippythesqurl2]

Ok, I don't understand alot of your comments, but I'll try and retort to the best of my abilities.

You said she didn't mention her technical coach and only Morozof, well that is simply not true...

From the interview
<She has spent the last month and a half working with coach Scott Williams on her programs — the short program to "The Feeling Begins," and the free skate to "Aranjuez" — both choreographed with help from Nikoli Morozov. Kwan said she has not made any changes to either program technically, but she has worked on the "little things" in the programs to make them faster and stronger.>

And how would that be a jab at Sahsa if she only mentioned her coreographer? Again a lot out of (literally) nothing.

<A jump-circus? Isn't skating a sport? (Well, amateur skating is at least 50% about jumps.)>

Skating is a sport, but while there is still a presentation mark, artistry still counts. Also you ignored my point skating your best concerns alot mentally and if you feel/think that a triple/triple will only hurt you, then just don't do it. A clean program with no 3/3s will win a flawed program with 3/3s. Period, it has happened in the past.


<I'm sorry, but I didn't like that interview at all, I just haven't found Michelle being a forthcoming in it. Actually, this was a Press Conference, and if I'm correct, athletes are expected to truthfully tell what they plan in the program in the upcoming competition, and what kind of jumps they've been practicing. When Sasha was asked prior to Skate Canada, if she's working on 3-Lutz, she simply said "No.">

Again, I'm having a little trouble understanding. But Michelle did say what she was planning to do in her programs, and she said what she was practicing for Worlds. DO you honestly believe Sasha stopped working on her 3lutz (although I assume you mean the quad) in practice? Thats ludacris, as a skater you don't quite working on things if you want to use them later. Michelle is obviously not comfterble with her 3/3 so she isn't putting them in.


<The fact that MK has been winning for 7 years, doesn't hold her above criticism. And again, what's the summary of this interview? Michelle's not going to attempt 3/3 "not to alter her programs," she's not certain if she'll compete in the next season, but she already confirmed for the Campbelle's. She admitted that she'll only skate at the most important events, because competing extensively puts a lot of pressure on her, but isn't it true for everyone?>>


I agree that it doesn't hold her above ctricism, but what exactly are you crtisizing her for? A comment that may, or may not be a jab at Sasha? As far as her not competeing in all events except for the major ones. She simply doesn't need to. Sasha has been on the sceen as a Senior for what? 3 years now ( not counting the year she hurt her back) But Michelle has been scince '93 or '94 (not clear) She doesn't need the world recognition, she has that, she doesn't need the experience, she has that, she doesn't need the money, again-she has that! Why should she compete at competitions when, honestly, there isn't competition? I can see why she is saving her body from the pressure it takes to remain focused and stay at a peak for competitions.


<And she mentioned Morozov's advice (a choreographer) and not Mr. Williams's (a technical coach), regarding her jumps, and then the quad. Maybe it was supposed to be a joke, but still it came out on Sasha's expense.>

What are you talking about?
From the interview
"I have spoken to Nikoli several times after nationals, talking about the performance at nationals, what he thinks, should I polish anything. He said to me that ‘If you skate like that, you’re fine," Kwan laughed.

He is her coreographer, she wants to skate the programs to the best of their ability. Her jumps at Nats were fine, she knows it and Scott knows it. AS far as a skating a program it can always improve, the speed, a hand here, a hand there, ect. Can I ask, what was the questioned asked. Would it be reasonable to assume it could have been something like "What are your feelings on the programs, "(in this case it would be a way to dodge sounding cocky) or "Was Nikoli pleased with his work?" or "Are you still working with Nikoli and what did he think ofyour performance?" I mean you are going on a witch hunt, and Michelle, to you, is a witch no matter what.

Again, I reinerate, If you are "reading in between the lines" like people do with Sasha, why? It doesn't make you a better fan, it makes you worse. Its petty that you feel "MK fans pick on Sasha, so I'll pick on her" Its been nice to come here, knowing that SashaFans posters are above this. I've never been to an MK, SH, IS forum because I severly dislike the bashing that I've heard goes on. I'm sad that you have choosen an innocent comment and made it into an evil comment that has no bases in reality.

[zippythesqurl2]

I would also like to add, If Mks comments are meant to be a jab at Sasha, it's still better than Sasha purposly rinning into MK at nats last year.

If you couldn't tell, that was sarcasm. BUT If you say MKs statements are Jabs, then it isn't to far out to say Sasha meant to bump into MK. Again I don't believe Sasha meant to do that, but I was trying to show how ridiculous this argument is.

[SashaTheGreat]

"You said she didn't mention her technical coach and only Morozof, well that is simply not true...

From the interview
<She has spent the last month and a half working with coach Scott Williams on her programs — the short program to "The Feeling Begins," and the free skate to "Aranjuez" — both choreographed with help from Nikoli Morozov. Kwan said she has not made any changes to either program technically, but she has worked on the "little things" in the programs to make them faster and stronger.>"

OK, I overlooked this reference to Scott Williams, but then this statement reaffirms my point, that MK works on the "small things" in her program, rather than her 3/3.

You may think that there's a possibility, that MK still works on her 3 combos, but judging from her interview, I conclude otherwise, and if she's not drilling on this jumps today, when she's 22, it's extremely unlikely, she'll start landing them next year. Actually, I'm willing to pay you $50.00, should we ever see Michelle Kwan going for 3/3 in the competition. Deal?

"<A jump-circus? Isn't skating a sport? (Well, amateur skating is at least 50% about jumps.)>

Skating is a sport, but while there is still a presentation mark, artistry still counts. Also you ignored my point skating your best concerns a lot mentally and if you feel/think that a triple/triple will only hurt you, then just don't do it. A clean program with no 3/3s will win a flawed program with 3/3s. Period, it has happened in the past."

I agree that landing jumps is important, but unless skater is working on them, and tries to execute them in the competitions, there's no chance she'll ever able to perform them. That's true for every technical element, and this is how sport advances.


<I'm sorry, but I didn't like that interview at all, I just haven't found Michelle being a forthcoming in it. Actually, this was a Press Conference, and if I'm correct, athletes are expected to truthfully tell what they plan in the program in the upcoming competition, and what kind of jumps they've been practicing. When Sasha was asked prior to Skate Canada, if she's working on 3-Lutz, she simply said "No.">

Again, I'm having a little trouble understanding. But Michelle did say what she was planning to do in her programs, and she said what she was practicing for Worlds. DO you honestly believe Sasha stopped working on her 3lutz (although I assume you mean the quad) in practice? That's ludacris, as a skater you don't quite working on things if you want to use them later. Michelle is obviously not comfterble with her 3/3 so she isn't putting them in."

Michelle did say that she won't do any 3/3 combos in the competition, but you ignored second part of the sentence, where I wrote, that athletes also answer questions about what kind of jumps they're working on.

At Skate Canada Press Conference, Sahsa was asked if she's working on/thinking of going for 3 Lutz, not quad, lutz. And she honestly said "No," instead of "guess what I'm capable of." I hope that clears it for you, though I believe that it's not that you don't see my point, but simply refuse to understand.

"<The fact that MK has been winning for 7 years, doesn't hold her above criticism. And again, what's the summary of this interview? Michelle's not going to attempt 3/3 "not to alter her programs," she's not certain if she'll compete in the next season, but she already confirmed for the Campbelle's. She admitted that she'll only skate at the most important events, because competing extensively puts a lot of pressure on her, but isn't it true for everyone?>>


I agree that it doesn't hold her above ctricism, but what exactly are you crtisizing her for? A comment that may, or may not be a jab at Sasha? As far as her not competeing in all events except for the major ones. She simply doesn't need to."

I believe she does, if she's so called amateur. And again, I'm criticizing Miss Kwan for not being forthcoming in her answers (she really put her foot in her mouth with the "quad" statement). Perhaps Tara have "toyed" with an idea of attempting a quad, but I believe, the most difficult jump Michelle ever went for was 3T/3T (correct me, if I'm wrong.) And wasn't the statement of not being sure if she'll compete next season, followed by confirmation for Campbell's, contradictory?

"Sasha has been on the sceen as a Senior for what? 3 years now ( not counting the year she hurt her back) But Michelle has been scince '93 or '94 (not clear) She doesn't need the world recognition, she has that, she doesn't need the experience, she has that, she doesn't need the money, again-she has that! Why should she compete at competitions when, honestly, there isn't competition? I can see why she is saving her body from the pressure it takes to remain focused and stay at a peak for competitions."

OK, if MK doesn't need any of above mentioned items, why does she stay eligible? And there's a plenty of competition these days, all of the top skaters have competed at this season, with an exception of injured Sarah.


<And she mentioned Morozov's advice (a choreographer) and not Mr. Williams's (a technical coach), regarding her jumps, and then the quad. Maybe it was supposed to be a joke, but still it came out on Sasha's expense.>

What are you talking about?
From the interview
"I have spoken to Nikoli several times after nationals, talking about the performance at nationals, what he thinks, should I polish anything. He said to me that ‘If you skate like that, you’re fine," Kwan laughed.

He is her choreographer, she wants to skate the programs to the best of their ability. "

Yes, Nikolai is her choreographer, and formally Sasha's co-coahc/choreographer. :)

"Her jumps at Nats were fine, she knows it and Scott knows it. AS far as a skating a program it can always improve, the speed, a hand here, a hand there, ect. Can I ask, what was the questioned asked. Would it be reasonable to assume it could have been something like "What are your feelings on the programs, "(in this case it would be a way to dodge sounding cocky) or "Was Nikoli pleased with his work?" or "Are you still working with Nikoli and what did he think ofyour performance?" I mean you are going on a witch hunt, and Michelle, to you, is a witch no matter what."

Oh, I don't dispute that for a minute, MK's jumps and over all performance was great at Nationals. You may not agree with my arguments, but calling my criticism a "witch hunt," is completely out of line. Michelle have been the only star of the US figure skating for a while, and therefore put on "the pedestal," so you simply not used to her being criticized.

"Again, I reinerate, If you are "reading in between the lines" like people do with Sasha, why? It doesn't make you a better fan, it makes you worse. Its petty that you feel "MK fans pick on Sasha, so I'll pick on her" Its been nice to come here, knowing that SashaFans posters are above this. I've never been to an MK, SH, IS forum because I severly dislike the bashing that I've heard goes on. I'm sad that you have choosen an innocent comment and made it into an evil comment that has no bases in reality."

I'm expressing my true feelings/opinion, I've got after reading this press conference release. I never said "MK fans pick on Sasha, so I'll pick on her," where did you get this statement from? And in no way I consider my opinion bashful. I'm glad my post spark a discussion, for a change, I just don't think you can handle it without getting upset.

[Clarabella]

erm, im not gettign into this argument, but im a little confuse, you say that before skate canada sahsa was asked if she was working in triple lutz and she said no. um doesn't she already do a triple lutz in her program. infact she has two in her long. did you mean a 3 lutz 3 lutz combo, cos that isn't possible,
ahhhhh so confused!!!!

[SashaTheGreat]

There's been an article by Christine Brennan, featured on this site, where she was criticizing Sasha (as usual). I can't find it now, but it was here, when the old format was on.

In this article, CB quoted Sasha from her Skate Canada press conference, where Sasha was asked, whether she's trying a 3Axel (sorry, not Lutz). According to Ms. Brennan, Sasha smiled, and said, "No, it's not in the plans."
I

[Clarabella]

cool, thanks,i was a little confused :rolleyes:

[zippythesqurl2]

OK, I overlooked this reference to Scott Williams, but then this statement reaffirms my point, that MK works on the "small things" in her program, rather than her 3/3. >

Again, I don't see the big deal of not doing a triple/triple because if Michelle doesn't feel ready to do one in a comp, then she shouldn't do it. It would be a big deal if Sasha did her 3/1.5/3 and 3/3 cleanly with no mistakes in the rest of her program, and Michelle didn't do any and still won. But when you're a skater and you're planning on doing something you aren't ready for, then it plays mental tricks on you. Kinda like Sasha when she attempted the quad last year, everything else suffered. So its may just be a difference of opinion (or preference, if you're a skater) and I'm cool with that, but I still can't see what the major deal is about MK not feeling ready to do 3/3s in competition.

<You may think that there's a possibility, that MK still works on her 3 combos, but judging from her interview, I conclude otherwise, and if she's not drilling on this jumps today, when she's 22, it's extremely unlikely, she'll start landing them next year. Actually, I'm willing to pay you $50.00, should we ever see Michelle Kwan going for 3/3 in the competition. Deal?>

I'm not a betting person :) But I'll put my pride on it, that is if Michelle stays in for more Worlds and Nats. Also Irina is over her 20s and she is doing variouse 3/3s, and while I'm not sure (maybe inserting foot-in-mouth) she hadn't worked on them that extensively, so MK being 22 isn't that big of a deal.

<I agree that landing jumps is important, but unless skater is working on them, and tries to execute them in the competitions, there's no chance she'll ever able to perform them. That's true for every technical element, and this is how sport advances.>

Agreed :)

"Assuming that I keep on competing, I think it (triple-triples) will be a must in terms of working at more jammed-packed programs with triples and triple-triples," she said. "Quads? Who knows what I’m capable of doing? As of now I don’t want to adjust my program."


Michelle did say that she won't do any 3/3 combos in the competition, but you ignored second part of the sentence, where I wrote, that athletes also answer questions about what kind of jumps they're working on.>

In nowhere does she say that she isn't working on 3/3s. In nowhere does it say what Michelle says she is working on in practise. She said what she was working on for Worlds, and that is as far as her statements on her practice go. Again, we don't know what questions were asked. After answering the (possible) question of if she'll try a 3/3 at worlds, some one could have asked "Are you working/planning on quads." There are many of outcomes, and yes one could have been "What about Sasha and her Quad," but you just purely don't know. I don't feel like picking this comment apart because we don't know exactly what was said.

<I believe she does, if she's so called amateur. And again, I'm criticizing Miss Kwan for not being forthcoming in her answers (she really put her foot in her mouth with the "quad" statement). Perhaps Tara have "toyed" with an idea of attempting a quad, but I believe, the most difficult jump Michelle ever went for was 3T/3T (correct me, if I'm wrong.) And wasn't the statement of not being sure if she'll compete next season, followed by confirmation for Campbell's, contradictory?>

Yes it is contradictory, but it maybe "I'll take it as it goes," senerio again. BTW: I believe Michelle is fully planning on competing at the next Olys, but her not actually saying that is a way to watch the field and see if she can still win, and I think that that is a cop-out, but I digress. Michelle used to practice her 3Axle, says so in many authorized, and unauthorized biographies. Michelle also thought of putting in a 3s/3loop into her '01 Worlds program, she even did them in the warm-up.


<At Skate Canada Press Conference, Sahsa was asked if she's working on/thinking of going for 3 Lutz, not quad, lutz. And she honestly said "No," instead of "guess what I'm capable of." I hope that clears it for you, though I believe that it's not that you don't see my point, but simply refuse to understand.>

No, I thought you made a type-o confusing the 3lutz for axle or quad. And if so, I clearly see your point, and understand. And again, we don't know what the questions asked were.


"OK, if MK doesn't need any of above mentioned items, why does she stay eligible? And there's a plenty of competition these days, all of the top skaters have competed at this season, with an exception of injured Sarah. "

Are you trying to say Michelle needs world recognition (I'm talking about the skating judges) so they know her and will give her higher marks? Because she does not. Michelle does not need the purse from the GPF because of her variouse endorsment deals. What Michelle does need is to know she is the best, hence still competing. I'm sorry but I can't blame her for wanting to win, and especially after Olys last year, her ego needs a boost. As far as there being no competition last year, there wasn't. The one GPF even she competed in was Skate America, and the only (real) threat was AP, and at that point she had no world 'cred as a senior. So there wasn't any competition. So because she doesn't need the Judges to know her, Michelle doesn't need to constantly be peeking and thus she doesn't compete. It really gives her a better chance at winning what comps. she DOES enter.


Oh, I don't dispute that for a minute, MK's jumps and over all performance was great at Nationals. You may not agree with my arguments, but calling my criticism a "witch hunt," is completely out of line. Michelle have been the only star of the US figure skating for a while, and therefore put on "the pedestal," so you simply not used to her being criticized.>

Oh no, I'm not used to any skaters being criticized the amount people are on the internet. Thats why I stay away from certain forums. I don't have MK on a pedastle, I find some of her skates boring. I've always been a fan of MK, at the time of the 98 Olys I thought MK should have won. In hindsight, however, I'm a bigger fan of Tara, and at this point I'm a fan of Sasha more than MK. Sasha is on the pdastle now, thank you very much :)
Also, I'm sorry of my "witch hunt" comment, but to me since the original comment:
"Assuming that I keep on competing, I think it (triple-triples) will be a must in terms of working at more jammed-packed programs with triples and triple-triples," she said. "Quads? Who knows what I’m capable of doing? As of now I don’t want to adjust my program."

Oh, OK, she's still pretty capable of doing 3/3's, and maybe even quads, who knows. It's just a simple matter of not wanting to over jam her programs, you see.

And why did Michelle even bring up a quad, to throw a jab at Sasha? (Since Sasha's the only female practicing it, on the senior level.) Like, oh sure, she's learning a quad. sal, but so far it's all talk, and I can brag too..."

It seems like your picking at a minute detail that may, or may not be a Jab at Sasha. That is the only problem I have. And you are assuming in this post that Michelle just came out and started blabbing about her quads and such, when hey, its a press-confrence, people DO ask questions...


"I'm expressing my true feelings/opinion, I've got after reading this press conference release. I never said "MK fans pick on Sasha, so I'll pick on her," where did you get this statement from? And in no way I consider my opinion bashful. I'm glad my post spark a discussion, for a change, I just don't think you can handle it without getting upset."

AS far as my comments of you saying it happens to Sasha, o I'll do it to....

"I'm just trying to read "in between the lines" of her interview, it's done to many skaters across the Net, and certainly to Sasha, who's every word is being overtly scrutinized."

And again, If being a fan, knowing what people do to Sasha's words, why would you try to twist Mks words? You say "I'm reading between the lines" so you're trying to figure out what MK was thinking, how can you do that? Is that possible? Can I have your secret of mind reading? Its silly, you don't know what the question was, you don't know what MKs true thoughts were, and yet you concluded that her comments were meant to be a jab at Sasha? I feel like you are just trying to find some reason to neigh-say MK (Heh, that rhyms) and make her out to be a villian.

If you think that what MK said "in between the lines" what did you think of Irina's flat-out comments about Sasha? Were they taken out of context or not? Im interested to see what Irina really said "in between the lines".

Again, I have no problem with yur not liking MKs playing it safe, thats fine :) But my problem is you saying MK is jabbing at Sasha.

[SashaTheGreat]

I didn't like Irena's comments, a la "I haven't really lost to Sasha," at all. But Russian skaters are known for "wearing their hearts on the sleeves," and personally, I prefer to know skater's true feelings, rather than listening to some meek PR campaign.

As to Michelle's press conference, I was mostly reacting to people on the board, saying how "interesting" and "good" her interview was, because I couldn't find much useful information in it (except for her not going for 3/3 at Worlds).

Of course, Michelle's strategy of "playing it safe" is perfectly legitimate, but she said she's going for the safer routine, just not to "alter" her program. Again, we haven't found out "what MK is capable of," because, frankly, she didn't tell us. After making a statement, that she haven't decided yet, what to do next season, she entered for Campbell's (already!). And the rest of the interview is full of tired clichés, like "I'm doing my best, while being under less pressure" (what a revelation!).

You're right when you say that we don't know exactly what questions MK was asked, so I understand, that my feelings that she was dissing Sasha seem like a stretch to you. But honestly, I doubt that she was asked about working on the quad, so why did she bring it up?

[zippythesqurl2]

This is getting tired as we are going over the same thing over and over again. Although I disagree with you on the "she probably wasn't asked about the quad, " comment

From the interview
"Quads? Who knows what I’m capable of doing?"

Quads? She asks, with a question mark and all. It seems very obviouse to me that she is responding to a question asked of her. If not, why would she retort in a quisitive manner?

[loveskating]

First of all: just so everyone knows, Sasha did not "purposefully" run into anyone...that was a LIE, and if anyone wants a real bump, look at the one between Sale & Peltier and Barezhnaya and Sik in a warm up at SLC!!!

Second, since Michelle Kwan has very often conceded the technical marks to other skaters (no 3/3 at all up against Tara with a 3/3 loop AND a 3/half loop/3); (only a 3/3 toe loop up against Irina and Sarah, both with a 3 sal/3 loop and Irina with a 3 lutz/3 loop in her arsenal), its no surprise if she doesn't think she needs a 3/3 toe loop...Kwan relies on the odds a lot, skates clean at a considerably lower level of tech difficulty (including as to spins and some aspects of jumps) and relies on her consistency and presentation skills betting that the other skaters, with a higher level of difficulty, will either be sloppy or fall. This is nothing new...and has worked for her except for Nagano and SLC.

Kwan didn't even have a 3 flip in her SP until 2000 when she fell at U.S. Nationals in the SP on a 3 toe loop...she is a very conservative skater.

Kwan has never landed anything more difficult than a 3/3 toe loop, the easiest of the 3/3 combos, and I've never seen her even attempt the kind of difficult entries to jumps that Sasha, Irina and Sarah do repeatedly. (Sasha: Ina Bauer into 3 sal or 2 axel; Irina: 3 turn into 3 loop; Sarah: spiral into 3 jump; 3 turn into 3 loop).

If Kwan made a comment about training for a quad, that might be a jab at Sasha...but that would not be aimed at anyone knowledgeable since I've heard nothing about Kwan landing a quad of any kind on any ice whatsoever...everyone knew because people posted it that Sasha was landing quad salchows all over the practice ice at her home rink...before and after she came back from her back injury. Then she landed them on practice ice for a competition, so we all got to see it.

[mkscfan]

I was laughing at some of the nitpicking that is being done regarding an interview. I laugh at the nitpicking done during a Sasha interview, a Sarah interview, and an Irina interview. Why? Because each skater has SOME fans that just can't or won't let the other competitor be. It's as if you have to pick apart Michelle, Irina or Sarah's words JUST so Sasha comes out on top. And the same thing applies all the way around. I'm not saying it's JUST Sasha fans or Michelle fans or Irina fans or Sarah fans. Just SOME of the fans of all 4 skaters. Good grief, I don't think the skaters have THIS much fun! LOL!!

First of all, I don't hear Sasha, Sarah, or Irina giving away EXACTLY what they will be doing in their programs. Why should Michelle? How do any of us know FOR SURE that she won't do a 3/3? Because she said she wasn't? Really? Could it be that she has one, can do one, and WILL do one if she needs to? I don't think ANY athlete needs to give up what their plans are because once you view the others, you might change your plans. I also don't think the "Quads?" was a jab at Sasha. Come on, why are you reading into THAT? I guess I'm just overly amused because I think the interviews that ALL the skaters have given so far have been honest, forthright and pretty good. At least they aren't "dissing" each other the way SOME fans do....LOL!!!!

[azncarrot]

Against Tara in 1998 Michelle COULDN'T have the 3/3 toe loop...It was said many MANY times that because of the location of her stress fracture, the toe jumps (especially the toe loop) cause her extreme pain.

Just though I'd post this reminder here...

[loveskating]

Originally posted by azncarrot
Against Tara in 1998 Michelle COULDN'T have the 3/3 toe loop...It was said many MANY times that because of the location of her stress fracture, the toe jumps (especially the toe loop) cause her extreme pain.

Just though I'd post this reminder here...

If we are talking about clean skates, that's one thing; if we are talking about elements and the quality of elements, that is quite anohter...

Michelle Kwan has never done ANY 3/3 more difficult than a 3/3 toe loop...not in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, so unless her toe injury was constant, I'm concluding that she could not do a 3/3 loop although I was told she did one in a warm up once.

I've never seen her do a 3 sal/3 loop or a 3 lutz/3 toe loop or anything more than a 3/3 toe loop. She has recently done a 3 flip/2 toe loop and a 3 lutz/2 loop and nothing like the quality of Irina (speed into and out of, height, ice covered, proper backspin position in the air and as to combination jumps, the similarity in size between the two jumps is marked as well, and Kwan's second on these is quite small).

Nor have I ever seen Michelle Kwan do a difficult entry into any jump, like a 3 turn into a 3 loop (Irina Slutskaya, Sarah Hughes, Ye Bin Mok and others); or like a spiral into a 3 jump (Sarah Hughes); or like an Ina Bauer into a 2 axel or a 3 sal (Sasha Cohen) or a spreadeagle into a 2 axel (Sokolova).

Given her longevity, one can only assume that she cannot do these things, or she would have done them by now.

[mkscfan]

each and every one of us is the prime authority on what each and every one of the elite skaters can and cannot do. (assume, if you will, this is spoken VERY sarcastically).

Now, Michelle did NOT do the 3/3 at the '98 Olympics because of the stress fracture in her toe. And she was in pain, so said Frank, when doing ANY of the toe jumps.

She did a 3/3 to win 2001 Worlds. She did a 3/3 in the QR at 2002 Worlds.

So I've never seen Sasha skate clean programs. I've never seen Irina have anything but headgrabbing as presentation. I've never seen Sarah do a triple lutz without flutzing. I've never seen Ye Bin Mok have any expression other than seriousness on her face. So I'm just going to ASSUME that none of these skaters can do any of those things because I've NEVER seen them do it. That has to be a fair assumption if you are going to assume ALL those things about Michelle Kwan. Fair's fair I suppose!

All I want is for the top female skaters in the World, i.e. Sarah, Sasha, Irina, Michelle, to come out blazing. I want it to be an edge of my seat competition. And I definitely DON'T want to worry about who's doing what! Because frankly, I just want to enjoy this competition without noticing all the "little" faults and imperfections of each skater. And sometimes it seems to me like we are too nitpicky about this instead of just ENJOYING the sport!!!

Ok, I'm done with my rant.

[zippythesqurl2]

"I've never seen her do a 3 sal/3 loop"

I have. About 3 years ago, I had the opportunity to go to Lake Arrowhead for a Camp, and I was able to sit in on a practice of hers. I also got to see Abt, thats when the obsession began :)
Anyways, even IF Michelle isn't working on 3/3s RIGHT NOW, she has in the past, and very well could possibly do them in the future. I think it is actually amusing some of the points. So what if Michelle skates conservativly? She has been the most consisten competitior, a bad day is 3rd place? Right she is doing everything wrong.
"First of all: just so everyone knows, Sasha did not "purposefully" run into anyone...that was a LIE, and if anyone wants a real bump, look at the one between Sale & Peltier and Barezhnaya and Sik in a warm up at SLC!!! "

Loveskating, I think I posted sevral times that I thought the bump wasn't intentional. I wonder did you see it though? It wasn't shown on T.V. Also, I don't think the bump in SLC was intentional, I mean you have no way of knowing, so why not be optamistic?
It is SOOOOOO Sad that some of the posters are so hypacritical. "Irina's words were probably twisted, " blah, blah, blah. That was in an interview also! People asked questions ::gasp:: But of course in Michelle's CONFERENCE (where, hey! they ask questions) she came out and said everything without any reason. Please! Michelle was asked questions, we don't know what they were, and therefore have no way of telling what she means by what she says.

In the end the whole quad being a jab at Sasha is very laughable and was a rude comment, that was uneaded.

[loveskating]

Sasha has skated clean programs in the Pro Ams and exhibitions, but quite right, not in amateur competition...as a fan of hers, I readily admit that. I admit that she takes off from the flat on her lutz; I admit that she has never landed a perfect 3/3 in competition.

It would be nice if Kwan's fans would admit that she has not landed anything more difficult than a 3/3 toe loop since 1999...but every accurate and factual statement of her skating or statements or actions is somehow turned into and viewed as an attack on her.

In any case, as far as I know, Michelle Kwan has never landed a quad of any kind, anywhere, any time...I'm sure if she had it would be big news, as it has been with any female skater who has done it, whether in competition or not.

Thus, if asked about a quad, I'd prefer she or anyone who had never landed one would say, "That is probably not in the cards" or something to that effect.

Sasha, on the other hand, has landed numerous quad salchows in practice, and everyone knows it.

[mkscfan]

I, as an avid Michelle Kwan fan, AND a fan of Sasha and Sarah, KNOW that Michelle has not attempted harder 3/3s in COMPETITION. It has been reported by people at her practice rink that she HAS worked on harder combinations hence the slight hip injury before Nationals.

Quads? Yes, Sasha does them in practice, but not in competition. Michelle had practiced the 3axel and was landing them in practice just like Sasha and her quads. But the 3axel threw off Kwan's timing on the 2axel so she quit.

And who cares if Kwan lands a quad anytime, anywhere? And who cares if Sasha does? I don't. I think quads are stupid even in the men's competition. Sorry, that's how I feel. I'd rather not see ANY skater, male or female, landing quads. I think there's more to both Kwan and Sasha than some jumps. Actually I think there's more to figure skating overall than these silly jumps. But I'm all alone in that thinking.

I don't take things as an attack (speaking for myself only) on Kwan because, personally, it's a matter of taste. However, there are fans of other skaters who DO feel it necessary to take an honest assessment of Kwan and make it harsh and rude. Honest assessments or constructive criticism CAN be done without the blatant nastiness that prevails. And of course, it's done on all sides not just with Kwan.

So, what I'm trying to say is this. If I make what I feel is an honest assessment or criticism of Cohen/Hughes/Kwan/Slutskaya/whomever, why do SOME fans feel their skater should be above that? And why do SOME fans feel their skater is being "bashed" or "dissed"? If I say I don't like the "Sasha spin" because to me it is vulgar. Does that mean I don't like ALL of Sasha's spins or even all of her skating? Does that mean I'm "bashing" Sasha? No, it's an honest assessment of how I, personally, feel her spin looks. And I think she has much more than flexibility to offer and wish she would get away from doing that ONE spin. But, of course, there is always ONE Sasha fan (not all) who will not allow me to be honest about MY view and take it as a "slap in the face" to Sasha, so to speak.

And then, because they know I like Kwan, that ONE fan will turn around and say something that isn't an honest assessment or criticism of Kwan but an attempt to "one-up" me instead. A good answer to my remark concerning the spin would be "I don't like the layback position Kwan uses because it doesn't seem as difficult". Well, now there you go! What an adult conversation! But then you follow it up with something positive about the skater you just made a criticism of.

I guess I'm making a complete ninny out of myself, but it's quite humorous to find SOME fans playing the "my skater's better than your skater" game.

[IceAlisa]

I agree with almost everything you said mkscfan, except that I don't think jumps are silly. Figure skating is progressing and the bar is being raised constantly. I love watching the men do the quad, Timmy and Alexei are amazing. Timmy is a great jumper although I am not crazy about his skating otherwise. The jumps are beautiful, powerful and while they are not everything, they are integral part of the sport.
I hope to see Sasha land the quad in competition one fine day! I too am not crazy about Sasha's Y spin, is that what you are talking about? I even asked Dustin to remove the picture in Multimedia section with Sasha in Y spin position and looking physically distressed. Other than that, I think Sasha is incapable of getting into an ugly position, to quote John Nicks.

MK so-called "lay back" is a creative solution to her inability to deliver a classic lay back. I think it's due to her back and hip not being flexible enough. I do love it though and think that her locked hands sliding down her back are sexy and beautiful to watch. She has very nice flow and fluidity to her skating, particularly in FOG and power and sexiness in The Feeling Begins. Other than that I am that into her, although I admire her chutzpah.
Again, I decline to comment on Sarah besides the fact that she does have a nice layback spin.

[zippythesqurl2]

In any case, as far as I know, Michelle Kwan has never landed a quad of any kind, anywhere, any time...I'm sure if she had it would be big news, as it has been with any female skater who has done it, whether in competition or not.

Right, that is true. But just because you haven't landed a jump doesn't mean you wont ever. I have never landed the triple loop, yet I work on it (my coach finally let me do it ON ice) and ::crosses fingers:: hopefully I will land it one day.

"I agree with almost everything you said mkscfan, except that I don't think jumps are silly. Figure skating is progressing and the bar is being raised constantly. I love watching the men do the quad, Timmy and Alexei are amazing. Timmy is a great jumper although I am not crazy about his skating otherwise. The jumps are beautiful, powerful and while they are not everything, they are integral part of the sport."

The only qualms I have about jumps, and I think almost everyone will agree, is the number of injuries.There is no feeling better than when you land a difficult jump, though:)

"MK so-called "lay back" is a creative solution to her inability to deliver a classic lay back. I think it's due to her back and hip not being flexible enough."

While MK never did a layback like Sasha, Sarah, or Angela the year after the '98 Olys, before she began doing the hands-creeping layback she did fix her leg. And I think she has plenty flexability in her back, it takes alot of flexability to do that in your layback. Although I agree about the no flexability in her hip.

[mkscfan]

IceAlisa, I want to thank you for a really nice answer.

Ok, I don't think ALL jumps are silly..LOL! I think less is better in any program though because I think there's more to figure skating than just jumps. And it's ok if you like quads and I don't because then we wouldn't have anything to discuss if we both liked them..LOL!!!

Once again, I enjoyed reading your post.

[summerfun]

So Sasha is the only person allowed to talk about a quad?
This thread is silly. Someone saying "Who knows what I am capeable of" is in no way taking a jab at someone! A jab would be more along the lines of "You know...OTHER people are practicing the quad too..."

See the difference? I seriously doubt Michelle was thinking of Sasha while answering questions at her press conference. LOL! Your post was really something!

One more question...why do you care if Michelle does not do 3/3? She obviously has not needed it for 7 national titles, and 4 world titles (well, 2001 worlds the 3/3 gave her the win), and 2 olympic medals. If she is happy with her program...why shouldn't we be? Because she can win without all the tricks??

[summerfun]

"Kwan has never landed anything more difficult than a 3/3 toe loop, the easiest of the 3/3 combos, and I've never seen her even attempt the kind of difficult entries to jumps that Sasha, Irina and Sarah do repeatedly. (Sasha: Ina Bauer into 3 sal or 2 axel; Irina: 3 turn into 3 loop; Sarah: spiral into 3 jump; 3 turn into 3 loop)."

So what? I have never seen Sasha skate an error free short and long program in the same competition. From what you have said...I guess she never will since she has not done it yet??

[IceAlisa]

summerfun, I think you need to cool off a bit. This thread was started by me wanting to share MK's interview. What you are saying is not constructive to a debate. It is not the content but the tone of your post I am not sure I like. Please be more respectful to other posters.

[summerfun]

I don't mean to come off as rude, I guess I am writing one way, and you are reading another. The thing is...the interview was completely innocent, and people (not you) are making it out as if MK said all these nasty things about Sasha, and that she has no right to skate if she is not going to do a 3/3 or compete in every event. It is mean spirited so if I come off offended, yeah I am a little bit.

There are other remarks people have made that get me annoyed. Take Tara for instance. People are always like "Oh I cannot believe she acted like this after she won the olympics". My responce? Who Cares...she was 15!!!" Sara too. A lot of people thought she "snubbed" Mk in her nationals interview by bringing up the olympics. My response? "Why shouldn't she bring it up? It is a big accomplishment. Are you jealous?"

Maybe I just write too blunt...but I don't know...these girls are figure skaters, not terrorists. IMO, if you want to say something negative, there are sooo many more people you can take anger out on, not Sarah, Sasha, and Michelle...

Anyway I hope you accept my apology

[IceAlisa]

Thank you, summerfun!

[Clarabella]

i totally agree with you summerfun!!!

[honey827]

I completely agree with you Summerfun and MKSCfan and Michelle has attempted harder combos in competition that is what she did at last years Skate Canada competition when she came in third I believe she fell on the first triple triple combo and two footed the other triple triple combo. She has also done footwk into the triple lutz, and an ina bauer into double axle and in this years lp she is doing a triple flip going into a double axle. I get really tired of people making it seem like Michelle has no difficulty in her programs I wonder where all the critics were when Irina landed a nice clean 6 triple program to win her first World title while Michelle lands seven triples including a triple triple and it is ho hum. Michelle lands a triple triple and it's why didn't she do two of them:rolleyes: or it's the easiest triple triple nothing is good enough. Michelle is as competitive as anyone otherwise right now she would be pro skating in either COI or SOI or simply attending college she is not going into Worlds preparing to lose she will do her best to win the World title triple triple or no because as proven she may not need it to win at all. I wish Irina, Sasha, Sarah and Michelle luck because imo they are all worthy World Champions.

[loveskating]

Originally posted by mkscfan
And then, because they know I like Kwan, that ONE fan will turn around and say something that isn't an honest assessment or criticism of Kwan but an attempt to "one-up" me instead. A good answer to my remark concerning the spin would be "I don't like the layback position Kwan uses because it doesn't seem as difficult". Well, now there you go! What an adult conversation! But then you follow it up with something positive about the skater you just made a criticism of.

I'm sorry you feel so put upon...

Nevertheless, there are objective standards as to the layback, and when a skater does not get the low arch to their back, when the back is not squared off, but twisted to one side or the other, when the leg is not extended out and adjusted, when the spin is not well centered and fast, then the layback is simply not as difficult or good as to quality.

If you want to see a great layback, look at Sasha Cohen's, Sarah Hughes' and Angela Nikodinov's. There is no one, including Michelle Kwan, who comes close to the quality those three achieve as to the layback spin.

Some of us feel no animis towards Michelle Kwan, but so respect the standards set by the best as to an element, that it is impossible for us to pretend that Kwan has a great layback when she she flat out does not; in fact, go look at some old tapes and you will see that her layback was of the stuck out leg variety until 2000...that is from 1996 to 2000, a very long time in skating.

I'm sorry if you interpret that as some kind of attack on Michelle Kwan or you...it is not intended to be. In fact, my main concern is that if any kid wants to learn the best layback, look to those three I mentioned, not to Michelle Kwan...her layback is ok, but nothing great.

And will that awful stuck out leg layback be with us forever on ABC's graphic introduction? Can't ABC get one from Angela, Sasha or Sarah?

[loveskating]

Let me just go over some rules:


as to jumps, there are rules on the order of difficulty,
1. 3 axel
2. 3 lutz
3. 3 flip
4. 3 loop
5. 3 salchow
6 3 toe loop
7. 2 axel

quad above those but same order of difficulty, i.e., 4 sal harder than 4 tl, as no one has landed 4 axel or 4 lutz.

Now, as to combinations, its somewhat the same, except that the SECOND jump of the combination needs to be in similar in size to the first, and if it is, then as a combination, its marked higher.

Jump sequences are marked similarly...and count more than single jumps.

A 3/3 toe loop, as you can see, is the EASIEST combination according to the rules, not according to some subjective whim.

The Canadian Web site is very clear on all these things...I suggest people who don't know and have an open mind go take a look. THere are many other rules...just on the jumps, let alone other elements.

[danibellerika]

I think this thread has run its course. It doesn't seem to be serving its original purpose.