NHK Scoring Question

[sunjoy]

Takahashi and Oda both scored over 244 in this event. That's over 10 points more than Joubert scored at the GPF where he beat Takahashi, and Takahashi's 247 at NHK is 10 points more than Joubert's personal best from when he landed three quads in his long at COR.

How did this happen?? Did the technical specialist upgrade Takahashi and Oda's jumps to quads?? Did the judges give +++ GOE across the boards?? Isn't it an international judging panel??

Note I didn't see NHK, and I don't really know how to read protocols, so hopefully someone can explain this to me like I'm a five-year old. :)

Thanks.

ETA: ut-oh... I just realized Worlds will be in Tokyo. Will Joubert score 260 there!!? :p

[Aemskater]

I read the protocols on USFSA and they both had high TSS scores so vs the presentation scores but it does not give you the break down to see how many quads each of them landed. I heard though that somtimes good 3-3 can be worth a base of 10-14 point depending on how hard they are and that is more than a triple axle or a quad witch I believe are worth 7-10 points.

[jobelle]

Takahashi NHK LP score: 163.49
Joubert COR LP score: 160.13

Actually I would compare Joubert's COR performance with Takahashi's NHK performance because Joubert scored 160.13 there.
The question is really how did a 1 quad program from Takahashi (at NHK) end up with a higher score than a 3 quad program from Joubert (COR). It's not PCS, because Joubert actually had higher PCS marks than Takahashi.

It could be GOE that is added to the elements. And a look at how many points are added/subtracted by GOE's alone shows us that Takahashi does get higher GOE than Joubert:
Takahashi at NHK had 6.46 points from GOE alone.
Joubert at COR had 4.5 points from GOE alone.
But I don't think that this is unreasonable. Takahashi has outstanding footwork and when his jumps are on they are a thing of beauty. Joubert has the jumps but he doesn't get high GOE (or really any) on his other elements.

Also there is the issue of spin and step sequence levels.
Takahashi:
spins: levels 4,3,3,3
FTWK: levels 3,4

Joubert:
spins: levels 4,2,3,4
FTWK: levels 3,3

The base values of these elements give Takahashi about a 1.5 point lead over Joubert.

Takahashi in jumps has 3 combos to Joubert's 2. Two of Takahashi's combinatins come after the halfway mark. The second jump in Joubert's combos are double jumps (both times) whereas Takahashi has a 3/3 and a 3/2/2 in addition to a 3/2.

So when it comes to Takahashi and Joubert I think that Takahashi has the edge because he plays the COP game correctly. He receives slightly higher GOEs, he utilizes his jumping passes more effectively, and he has higher spin and footwork levels. If Joubert wants to beat a clean takahashi he will need to do more than just land 3 quads.

I don't feel like looking at Oda's scores right now...but I don't think that judges were holding Takahashi up or anything like that. He just happened to brilliantly skate a well COP-choreographed program in his home country.

[loveskating]

I agree; he outskated Oda, which is hard to do. Takahashi is more artistic; IMHO his skating is right up there potentially with great artistic/technical skaters like Kulik, Abt, because he doesn't just pose and do crossovers, he moves his whole body and moves on that ice.

[sunjoy]

Thanks guys. Moral of the story for me is that I should really go watch the NKH, and also that Worlds will be quite interesting, especially with Lambiel added to the mix!

[jobelle]

Thanks guys. Moral of the story for me is that I should really go watch the NKH, and also that Worlds will be quite interesting, especially with Lambiel added to the mix!

I, too, saw the scores before I watched the performances from NHK and my first thought also was "oh great, ridiculously high marks that are totally unfair". But once I saw the performances I realized that these marks were pretty much fair.

I agree Worlds should be very interesting this year.