MK using Rach. music for new LP-What say you bout this? [Archive]

amidala

07-12-2005, 06:59 PM

I keep reading about how MK is using Rachmonioff for her oly LP music, so if its true, what do you think about this choice?

Personally, I like Rach and loved when Sasha used this type of music back in the 2002-2003 season.
But, I also recall how a whole lot of Kwan fans (on her most famed forum) really vented their frustration in Sasha using music that was, "done to death"(by other skaters).
Now, since MK is rumoured to be skaing to Rach, I see a lot of happy folks over in Kwanville; so the million dollar question for me is, why is a MK Rach LP wonderful news, but when Sasha goes for Rach., it's considered using music that's stale and done to death?

azncarrot

07-12-2005, 07:12 PM

Some people, including me, don't like the idea of Rach just because she's done it twice already. But then again, I guess it all depends on what piece gets used. Since Tatiana picked it, then I'm guessing it is an overused piece. But they don't know what piece it is yet. I think that a lot of people are thinking of all the unused Rachmaninoff pieces out there in the world and are thinking that one of those could be used. I'm just :rolleyes: at the idea of a lot of people over there telling each other that they RACH all year, so I will not be going over there. I like to avoid places that are closeminded, and don't go inviting trouble by going to places where I know I won't agree with the content.

Lipinskifan19

07-12-2005, 07:37 PM

I'm just :rolleyes: at the idea of a lot of people over there telling each other that they RACH all year, so I will not be going over there. I like to avoid places that are closeminded, and don't go inviting trouble by going to places where I know I won't agree with the content.
Oh yea! You so RACH asncarrot! whee!!!! :p Dude you would not believe how many pages that mk music thread is. It's unbelievable, actually quite scary.

Always_Sasha

07-12-2005, 07:44 PM

It's that long because half of them stayed up all night trying to figure out what exactly her music will be. Quite the lives they lead.

I actually started reading it, but I couldn't take it after more than about 2 pages. All the "OMG what a great choice" made me want to puke, especially since they said quite the opposite when Sasha skated to it :rolleyes:

danibellerika

07-12-2005, 07:54 PM

People actually stayed up all night? Not too shocking I suppose :rolleyes:. I haven't ventured over and have no desire to. Michelle's Rach from 1998 and 2002 were kinda diff. Both were quite boring to me but at least in 1998 it didn't seem as if she was mailing it in like 2002. Wouldn't be suprised if this new one is even worse off than 2002. Maybe she has it as a LP now because she realized that it could get her 1st place in the SP two Olys in a row, so doing it in the long could get her that 1st place she's been coasting by the past four years for.

ditzysk8r

07-12-2005, 08:48 PM

What do I think of it? Been there, done that. She's already used Rach for her SP twice, and Sasha's used it for her LP. Plus many others have used it.

SashaTarafan

07-12-2005, 08:54 PM

Since Tatiana picked it, then I'm guessing it is an overused piece.

I don't think it was ever stated that Tatiana picked it out.

Michelle has used Rach for her past 2 Olympics maybe that is a bad luck piece of music for her. I don't care really what she uses...the MKF'ers better be worried more about her jumps and her lack of choreography for the past few years...don't get me wrong I love Michelle to death and she has had some amazing programs (mainly ones Lori Nichol choreo'ed), like Salome, Taj Mahal, Romanza, The Red Violin, etc. it doesn't matter what piece of music she skates to, as we all know Michelle has the ability to skate a great program and bring down the house..she just hasn't really delivered in the past few years. If this doesn't change she can kiss another OGM good-bye, Rach or no Rach.

azncarrot

07-13-2005, 08:35 AM

I don't think it was ever stated that Tatiana picked it out. Michelle stated last season that her choreographer usually chooses the music.

attyfan

07-13-2005, 09:07 AM

Rach(maninoff) is a composer, not a specific piece of music. One of his works (Symphony No. 3, I think, but I'm not sure) is used much less frequently than others (No. 2, or also overused, Rhapsodies on a Theme by Paganini) Kwan's SP was primarily No. 3, with a small cut from another work; Sasha's was No. 2. This is why Kwan could do her Rach SP when she was famous for using music that other skaters didn't touch. It also means that we really don't know yet if Michelle is skating to (a) an expanded version of her former SP; (b) the same music Sasha used; or (c) some different Rachmaninoff piece. I hear that Rachmaninoff wrote a lot of piano concertos that would make good skating music that no one has ever used.

Dark_Eyes

07-13-2005, 10:07 AM

:confused: hm MK using Rach? I don't think it's going to go down very well, it's now very overused and i think she needs to used something fresh after how bolero went for her last year.

amidala

07-13-2005, 12:08 PM

I'm thinking that since TT is choreographing this Rach LP, it will be filled w/ about as much content as Sasha' s Rach from 2003. Knowing the layout of Sasha's Rach, do you think MK has the stamina to perform at that level? I'm sure she's been working hard this summer, but is that enough to overcome 3 years of her taking it easy during all her LP's (since the last Olys). Last season being the worst, since Bolero became more and more watered down. I'm of the opinion that a skater has to spend years building up to an oly gold performance, but who knows what will happen.

IceAlisa

07-13-2005, 12:11 PM

I am with attyfan. Which Rach? One of the Concertos? Also, I am not surprised at the uberKwaniacs reaction. Michelle can do no wrong, while Sasha can do no right.

Dark_Eyes

07-13-2005, 12:31 PM

I am with attyfan. Which Rach? One of the Concertos? Also, I am not surprised at the uberKwaniacs reaction. Michelle can do no wrong, while Sasha can do no right.

I know! ugh it really gets to me :mad: . A lot of Sasha fans also like Michelle but prefer Sasha whereas most Michelle fans feel that Sasha is nowhere near as good. Im not saying it's the case for all but it does seem to happen alot. I should know, from a board i was previously at.

xSashaSpinx

07-13-2005, 12:37 PM

loveskating

07-13-2005, 02:39 PM

sasha4ever02

07-13-2005, 03:31 PM

[QUOTE=Always_Sasha]It's that long because half of them stayed up all night trying to figure out what exactly her music will be. Quite the lives they lead.[\QUOTE]
LOL!!!! that really made me laugh!!!
;)
*sigh* I was hoping she would skate to something different. I just can't seem to appreciate her style fo skating with Rach's music...........

azncarrot

07-13-2005, 03:37 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if it had a good amount of Piano Concerto #2. Its still only speculation that its Rach for the LP, though it seems to be a pretty good guess. Its a bit odd that she would use it for a thrid Olypmic Season; Though she won the SP twice with that music, and over at that particular Michelle Forum I've read that its considered her "trademark program". - didn't read much after that, they seemed a little too fanatical.
Of course its okay for Michelle to use this music and not Sasha, I too wonder if she will be able to handle it. Sasha's Rach was jam-packed, and I really enjoyed the choreography(though not as much as the Sasha-Nicks programs), but its fast paced, and I have noticed that Michelle skates much slower now.
I don't think that Michelle used Concierto #2 for her SP before. I think she used Piano Concerto #3 and many do consider that as a signature piece, I guess. IMHO, Michelle skates much faster now, but has less footwork inbetween her elements. It'll be interesting to see is she can keep up the speed with Tatiana's type of choreography.

Skatingfreak

07-13-2005, 05:46 PM

MK's 1998 SP was a combination of Trio Eleagique in D minor (in my opinion, a fantastic piece and if she is using other parts from it I would be delighted--if she gets choreo in, of course) and the finale from Rach's piano concerto #3--another great piece, and if she was using different parts from that concerto to make her LP, that could the beginnings of an excellent program. This is IF she delivers, IF she can perform with actual choreography rather than stroking across the ice and doing some jumps. She could also be using parts from Rhapsody On A Theme by Paganini, another wonderful piece but kinda overused. Oh, Rach also wrote some beautiful piano sonatas. Rachmaninoff music presents many wonderful choreography opportunities, and it'll be interesting to see if she actually rises to the challenge this year. If she doesn't, she can kiss her chance at the gold goodbye.

MKFSfan

07-13-2005, 06:26 PM

I've always felt this "used" music argument was just another way to bash skaters yet seem objective (as in, when you cannot get away with bashing Kulik's skating, just bash his costume to smithereens) so I've stayed out of it.

However, Composer Rachmaninov's style is entirely distinctive, like no other, and in that sense, whatever the piece, you know its a Rach, just like anyone who knows opera can tell a few bars in that its Pavarotti or Gigli singing!

I suppose a cretan or someone with an agenda spinning the truth could claim that some piece or the other of "Mr. Rach" is "overused".

IMHO its a wise choice for Michelle...suits her, Rachmaninov is always lyrical so his music should not demand too much of Michelle (like Bolero) yet the music is entirely accessible for an Olympic audience.

As for some of her fans, well, they will distort anything, including bashing the very standards of skating itself, to bash Michelle's competitors...its like talking to a brick wall, LOL! I read on one forum recently that Irina's turns into her loop are "telegraphing" the jump, ROFLMAO! No one set that person right. You simply cannot take them seriously.

I agree with this post! I hate when people complain about music choices, because unless they do the same exact program, why does it matter? I hardly ever even notice and think,"Oh, great! another Swan Lake!" Sure, I do associate certain music with other skaters, but why does it matter? Just a bashing point, I suppose.

It's pretty obvious what board you guys are referring to, so I just wanted to say the reason members stayed up "all night" debating the music choice was because the poster had put it in a puzzle and I have to say, it was pretty entertaining reading how other posters put it together! You encounter narrow-mindedness amongst all fans, that's part of fandom, I suppose. Even when you find a "skating fan" board, you still will read nasty posts about your favorite skater. BUT there are still lots of threads to read that are entertaining and educational as well! I try to be a selective reader! The reason I love coming here is not only because I enjoy Sasha, but also because, even though there's enough criticism towards Michelle, for the most part I don't get insulted for being a Michelle fan! I guess when forums are so huge, you get more negative posts, but all in all, I do read alot of nice posts about Sasha, which is how I got to become intrigued by her in the 1st place!

xSashaSpinx

07-13-2005, 06:41 PM

I don't think that Michelle used Concierto #2 for her SP before. I think she used Piano Concerto #3 and many do consider that as a signature piece, I guess. IMHO, Michelle skates much faster now, but has less footwork inbetween her elements. It'll be interesting to see is she can keep up the speed with Tatiana's type of choreography.

oops sorry i meant to type 3. :o Though didn't Sasha use #2, maybe it was Tatiana's influence and she will use some of the same piece. I guess what I see as slower could just be a lack of choreography, at any rate, she isn't the same skater she use to be. Well, the best of luck to her the upcoming season!

robert

07-13-2005, 07:14 PM

I agree with this post! I hate when people complain about music choices, because unless they do the same exact program, why does it matter? I hardly ever even notice and think,"Oh, great! another Swan Lake!" Sure, I do associate certain music with other skaters, but why does it matter? Just a bashing point, I suppose.

I so agree with you. Don't understand why people make such a fuss about the choice of music. Most skaters choose classical music, which is rather the samish to me across the board. My view is simple; whatever Sasha chooses we her fans will soon learn to like it, especially if she skates well. That probably applies to every skater. So what if the music has been used before, as long as it's not by the same skater. :rolleyes:
Robert

hillwilliam

07-13-2005, 07:44 PM

So what if the music has been used before, as long as it's not by the same skater. :rolleyes:
Robert

Hi Robert. I was hoping you could explain this comment to me. I'm not sure what you mean. Many skaters, including Sasha (i.e. Dark Eyes) use music pieces more than once for different programs. Do you think they should avoid this?

MKFSfan

07-13-2005, 09:18 PM

Maybe he meant as long as multiple skaters aren't using the same piece in a season? Like last year, we had a few "Romeo and Juliets". I don't know-they were all so different, it didn't bother me. It's more when a skater uses a piece that was just used by a top competitor recently that almost begs for comparisons-like Michelle used "Tosca" two seasons after Irina. I think as long as the music fits, anything goes! I loved "Spartacus" for Michelle, so I hope she keeps it.

If Robert means he doesn't think a skater should skate to the same piece again, I disagree there. Like with "Dark Eyes" for Sasha, sure Sasha has used it a couple of times, but she seems to really love that music, and it suits her. "Rach" the SP, was a signature piece for Michelle, and with the lukewarm response to "Rush" combined with not wanting to reuse "East Of Eden" for the Olympics (one of my faves!), I thought her next best shot was reviving "Rach". That being said, who knows if Michelle is going for a longer version of that SP, but if she keeps the ending, where she had the spiral, that's good for me!

attyfan

07-14-2005, 09:09 AM

Maybe he meant as long as multiple skaters aren't using the same piece in a season? Like last year, we had a few "Romeo and Juliets". I don't know-they were all so different, it didn't bother me. It's more when a skater uses a piece that was just used by a top competitor recently that almost begs for comparisons-like Michelle used "Tosca" two seasons after Irina. I think as long as the music fits, anything goes! I loved "Spartacus" for Michelle, so I hope she keeps it. ...

I wonder about skaters using pieces just used because it seems to be a frequent occurrence. For example, when Kwan was skating to "Tosca", Irina's SP was music that Kwan once used -- I wouldn't be surprised if they arranged it that way on purpose (not foreseeing Irina's illness). At 1999 Nats, NNN's free skate was the same Rachmaninoff piece that Michelle had used the previous year for her SP. Just after 2003, one of the men (I think it was one of the Asian skaters) used MITIM -- apparently, when the music started playing at the GPF (which was in St. Petersburg) many in the audience thought that Yags had shown up.

robert

07-14-2005, 04:34 PM

Hi Robert. I was hoping you could explain this comment to me. I'm not sure what you mean. Many skaters, including Sasha (i.e. Dark Eyes) use music pieces more than once for different programs. Do you think they should avoid this?

Hi hilly: Sasha skated to Dark Eyes in 1999-2000, and again in 2005, but the music is so different that it makes it okay. Mind you, five years is probably long enough to re-use the same music, although it may be better if the skater did not choose the exact same music. Hope that clears up my "confusing" comment. Sorry about that. basically My point was that people make too much of a big deal over the choice of "other" skater's music, while exempting their own favourite. I would probable do the same for Sasha, if it came to that. At least I'm honest, right?! ;):D
Robert

hillwilliam

07-14-2005, 07:08 PM

robert

07-15-2005, 05:58 AM

Hi Robbie- Thanks for the clarification. I agree that people make too big of a deal about "other" skaters choice of music. In fact, I've never been bothered by any skaters utilization of "overused" music or by their resurrection of previously used pieces. I apply this policy to my "favorite" skater and the "other" skaters who compete against my favorite. I think the skater and their coach/choreographer need to use what they are comfortable with. Regards, Hilly
P.S. Thanks for your honesty.

I should have added this: How on earth do skaters avoid using the exact piece of music that someone else might select, if no colaboration takes place before and especially if choices are made in secret? Does anyone know how this works? Do skaters, in fact, colaborate over the choice of music??? :rolleyes:

azncarrot

07-15-2005, 08:36 AM

They can't always avoid it. I think last year Amber Corwin was planning to use Bolero, but then Michelle ended up using it. Also, I think the top choreographers tend to keep their ears open for what others are using. When Michelle had Lori picking her music, it was easier to avoid others using the same music because it was new and unused and more than likely not on a lot of choreographers music lists. Now, there's more of a chance of using someone else's music.

"Overused" music is popular and more likely to be used by more than one skaterin a given year, such is the case many times for Romeo and Juliet or Swan Lake. I think some people harp on overused music because they don't want to hear the same old music over and over throughout the season and at every competition. The choreography could be totally different, but for some reason, listening to the same music used over and over might be off-putting to some people. Not me though. Pretty music is pretty music and I can listen to it all day.

attyfan

07-15-2005, 10:12 AM

I wonder what part the media "hype" plays in it, also. Remember "The Battle of the Carmens"? And at Worlds in 2001, they were trying to create a "Battle of the Gladiators" between Yags and Elvis, but it didn't work out (Yags and Elvis both did not skate well and Plushy stole the show)

nvodivo

07-16-2005, 12:09 AM

Michelle should use Irina's Music from the past two seasons!!

I think it would be hilarious!!

No if I was actually serious about choosing Music for People he's what I would skate to-

Michelle Kwan- I think it would be interesting to see Michelle actually take something on from Chaplin or Blues Rythum-with some Sharp Movements-

Sasha Cohen- "Variations from Sunset Boulevard" dramatic and beautiful and different-

Kimmie Meisener- Little Women as a long program-

Carolina Costner- Soundtrack/Score of Great Expectations- Really Light and somewhat Eerie Maybe even the Score of American Beauty or a Beautiful Mind-

Irina Slutskaya- FLAMENCO-

Mens-

Brian Joubert- Don Quixote- Lets see him pull of Nureyev

Plushenko- I loved his Long Program piece last year and I think he should use it again-

Johnny Weir- Sleeping Beauty or a Waltz Variation-

Stephane Lambiel- Gladiator mixed in with a Little Spartucus - Dramatic and magical- I'm sure he can make it something-

Evan Lysacek- I think it would be interesting if he did a really Dramatic Version of Carmen-

Jeffery Buttle- something Bjorkish with out the Vocals-

Emanuel Sandhu- Something Chinese Maybe?

Sasha's Gnome

07-16-2005, 06:53 AM

This has always kind of bothered me, that (and I don't think I am biased because I am a SashaFan) Sasha's fans seem to accept all the skaters and are not usually found bashing Michelle, but Michelle's fans (NOT ALL OF THEM) seem to not be as kind to other skaters and make special exceptions for Michelle. I am a true Sasha fan, but if someone else skates well, even if I don't like them, I always show respect and admiration for a job well done. Vice versa, if Sasha skates awfully, I'm not going to lie and say she was amazing.

Anyway...as for Michelle using Rach., didn't she use a Rach. piece in both other Olympics? I personally think she is a little lost and may be trying to recreate the past, and I'm not sure she can do that. I hope she picks a totally new, exciting piece of music to show she can still be awesome, because if she fails trying to be the 'old Michelle' she will only show that she is not quite the same skater she was. (Hope no one is offended, if so, I'll make a peace offering :lol: ) Best of luck to all!!!!!

Tori

attyfan

07-16-2005, 10:40 AM

Michelle used the same SP (by Rachmaninoff) in both Olys. It wasn't only the same music -- it was the same choreography, too. I think that there is a big difference between using the same (or similar) music (if Michelle is doing so, that is still unknown) and re-using the same program.

(BTW -- I post at the MKF and at FSU, as well as here, and IMO there are at least as many people, proportionately, who like both Sasha and Michelle as those who let their emotions on one flow into nasty remarks about the other. However, no matter what the issue -- be it politics or skating -- it is a few fanatics who can make the whole "cause" look bad.)

Tony Wheeler

07-16-2005, 12:53 PM

Some of the snarky comments in this thread towards "another board" as I shall call it are completely unnecessary, and believe me, I would say the same thing at that other board if I came across similar opposing comments.

Many people at that board enjoyed a bit of a game I put together and that's why the thread turned up so long. If I did the same here I'm sure people would be having just as much fun trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together as they did. If you don't like it or don't like the skater, then don't bother going there.

It's ridiculous to me the standpoint of some fans being that if you like skater X then you most certainly can't like skater Y. Even if doesn't go as far as that, you get my point I would hope. Yeah, I get driven nuts when I go to boards and I see 24/7 lovefests for specific skaters who can do no wrong and every other skaters every weakness is pointed out. But it's going to happen, all of you know it. So don't read the other board if you don't want to tolerate it! :twisted:

Sasha's Gnome

07-16-2005, 01:43 PM

Good point, Tony :), I'm waving the white surrender flag :lol: (even though I'm not sure if you were refering to my post or not). And as for the huge thread at 'the other board', I am sure I, too, would enjoy it, but my computer isn't letting me on for the past few weeks. :confused: And as I said in my earlier post, I do hope Michelle can pull together the program we all know she is capable of :D . (Sasha, too ;) )

Tori

Tony Wheeler

07-17-2005, 11:39 PM

SG- My post was not directed at you at all, but thanks for the reply & keeping a sense of maturity!

azncarrot

07-18-2005, 12:49 PM

I post at both places, too, or at least used to. I even took part in the "guess the music" game because I, too, was intrigued :lol: by Tony's hints. I just don't like that I can't express myself fully over there without being called names by some posters over there, but not all. This is why I will keep to posting here and at FSU this year until everything has toned down after the Olympics.

I really do hope Michelle uses a Rachmaninoff piece other than Piano Conierto #2 or #3 or Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini. But if she must, I prefer the last music selection that I just listed. I wonder when Michelle and Sasha's music will be announced...

amidala

07-18-2005, 11:34 PM

Some of the snarky comments in this thread towards "another board" as I shall call it are completely unnecessary, and believe me, I would say the same thing at that other board if I came across similar opposing comments.
It's ridiculous to me the standpoint of some fans being that if you like skater X then you most certainly can't like skater Y. Even if doesn't go as far as that, you get my point I would hope. Yeah, I get driven nuts when I go to boards and I see 24/7 lovefests for specific skaters who can do no wrong and every other skaters every weakness is pointed out. But it's going to happen, all of you know it. So don't read the other board if you don't want to tolerate it! :twisted:

Tony, with all due respect, people on this forum don't act "snarky" to the board you are referring to. That board has quite a reputation(that I won't get into), it does leave an impression on those who visit there(be it good or bad). But, this forum exercises remarkable restraint in how it goes about communicating about that forum, here at SashaFans.
I for one will jokingly refer to it as "kwanville", but that's hardly considered being "snarky" in my book. The grand majority of posters here respect that forum enough not to cut it down and sterotype it (and poke fun) like they do over at the other place. I have read many a comment (over there) about how this forum caters to only one type of age bracket (which I won't clarify to give the ones who posted it the satisfaction).
You may have created a popular thread by throwing out some scraps for folks to ponder until the new season, but don't let it go to your head.
Peace. :cool:

Dilng

07-19-2005, 01:07 AM

Tony, with all due respect, people on this forum don't act "snarky" to the board you are referring to. That board has quite a reputation(that I won't get into), it does leave an impression on those who visit there(be it good or bad). But, this forum exercises remarkable restraint in how it goes about communicating about that forum, here at SashaFans.
I for one will jokingly refer to it as "kwanville", but that's hardly considered being "snarky" in my book. The grand majority of posters here respect that forum enough not to cut it down and sterotype it (and poke fun) like they do over at the other place. I have read many a comment (over there) about how this forum caters to only one type of age bracket (which I won't clarify to give the ones who posted it the satisfaction).
You may have created a popular thread by throwing out some scraps for folks to ponder until the new season, but don't let it go to your head.
Peace. :cool:

I have to agree 100%, and I need to add that snarky comments are many Kwan fan's forte. It's pretty bad when you can't even give any criticism without Kwan fans jumping all over you whether it's here or at FSU. A fan can be loyal, but not so obsessive compulsive that they can't see the truth. I think fans at this board and at Irina's site are loyal, but are certainly able to admit when our favorite skaters don't make the right decisions or don't have a great performance.

kim

07-19-2005, 07:37 AM

attyfan

07-19-2005, 09:13 AM

Dilng

07-19-2005, 01:21 PM

I think We would all get pretty snarky if someone came here and started having negative threads about Sasha, I have seen it. It is the same on every specific skater board. I am lucky, I like Sasha, Michelle and most other skaters and I don't really care what negative's people have to say they don't bother me, some posters just are that way and you learn at which boards and who they are and wonder why they are such unhappy people.
I did not partake in the game because I have been busy but I did read thru it and it looked like fun. I would love to know Sasha's music and would do the same thing.
By the way I love Rach it is my all time favorite skating music.

Since I'm not a Kwan fan, I never visist her sites. I'm talking about other sites that Kwan fans visit. They are bizzarre the way that take everything you say as a personal insult. Even though I'm not a Kwan fan, I have liked some of her programs and costumes. They were programs and costumes from Frank Carroll day's, but still I have mentioned when I did like them. When I mentioned that I liked a particular color costume on Kwan at one of these sites, I was accused of only liking that color because Kwan fell when she was wearing it. I'm sorry, but I find these comments scary, especially since Kwan has fallen while wearing different colors.

Irina is my favorite skater with Sasha second, but I always try to keep my objectivity when I'm discussing them. One example is Irina's spiral. I always disliked her old spiral and I would say at her site that I wish she would change it. Needless to say, it was a THRILL to see her new Beilman spiral this past season. I have also mentioned at her site that I didn't like her long dresses. I don't say it in a nasty way, but it is constructive criticism. I know Irina visits the sites, and maybe she will listen to some of our comments.

I also, feel comfortable saying constructive criticism at this site although I haven't really said much. I think Sasha's true fans also feel comfortable saying constructive criticism as well. There is a big difference between snarky remarks and honest criticism.

I think the reason some Kwan fans are so offensive is that they always think everything Michelle does is wonderful while other skaters fall short. We all know though, that isn't true.

AxelAnnie

07-19-2005, 03:13 PM

I think We would all get pretty snarky if someone came here and started having negative threads about Sasha, I have seen it. I
Nope, I disagree. The people on this board handle matters with grace, dignity and amazing restraint. Snarkers just don't last here because there is nothing for them to keep feeding on.

amidala

07-19-2005, 04:16 PM

I also, feel comfortable saying constructive criticism at this site although I haven't really said much. I think Sasha's true fans also feel comfortable saying constructive criticism as well. There is a big difference between snarky remarks and honest criticism.

I think the reason some Kwan fans are so offensive is that they always think everything Michelle does is wonderful while other skaters fall short. We all know though, that isn't true.

:D Dilng, you have made some excellent points, I especially like the ones quoted(above).
Plenty of hardcore fans of Sasha (that are members and mods) of this forum have often given constructive criticism of Sasha during the various past skating seasons. I for one applaud this because it says that we here at SashaFans know how to think for ourselves. We are not afraid of being ambushed by a crew of members who make it their mission in their immediate life to get you banned (like at another forum). Furthermore, the members here have enough maturity and respect for one another, that even if one member reads a post they completely disagree with, that member (most often) will communicate their own opinion(s) in a way that does not attack people personally.
Your assessment about the few Kwan fans that fail to recognize any of MK's shortcomings is right-on. It's hard to not have this opinion after reading a request on the forum's feedback section, that asked/propositioned the board's owner to not allow any posts (that are not completely positive-aka "Go Michelle" posts), due to the fact that Worlds 05 just ended, and Michelle's less than glorious 4th place standing was going to bring out the "haters". That's just cowardly IMHO, for if Sasha came in 4th, no one here would proposition Dustin to delete any posts that don't all sing praises of Sasha.

azncarrot

07-19-2005, 04:32 PM

Your assessment about the few Kwan fans that fail to recognize any of MK's shortcomings is right-on. It's hard to not have this opinion after reading a request on the forum's feedback section, that asked/propositioned the board's owner to not allow any posts (that are not completely positive-aka "Go Michelle" posts), due to the fact that Worlds 05 just ended, and Michelle's less than glorious 4th place standing was going to bring out the "haters". That's just cowardly IMHO, for if Sasha came in 4th, no one here would proposition Dustin to delete any posts that don't all sing praises of Sasha.Actually, that was due to some reporter (Hersh, I think) saying in an article that even members of that board were critiquing her world's performance. It had nothing to do with placement...Just bad publicity in their eyes. Like I've said before, there are these types of posters at every board I've been to, but at least most are either shut down by the mods or the other posters of this board or they are at least intelligent enough to shut up eventually.

All this waiting for the season to start is making people nutty, I believe. Maybe a temporary truce needs to be called during off-seasons to avoid teh insanity.

Katia_Fan22

07-19-2005, 06:40 PM

Your assessment about the few Kwan fans that fail to recognize any of MK's shortcomings is right-on. It's hard to not have this opinion after reading a request on the forum's feedback section, that asked/propositioned the board's owner to not allow any posts (that are not completely positive-aka "Go Michelle" posts), due to the fact that Worlds 05 just ended, and Michelle's less than glorious 4th place standing was going to bring out the "haters". That's just cowardly IMHO, for if Sasha came in 4th, no one here would proposition Dustin to delete any posts that don't all sing praises of Sasha.

Except the moderator of that board did not comply.

I liken Sashafans to a village. A place where everyone knows everyone else, where the most serious crime is something innocuous like walking on the grass. MKF's population is considerably larger (I imagine because it's been around longer) and is more like a city. Still going to have some nice people in it, but much more prone to a segment of population that you'd steer clear of if you were walking in a city late at night. When I read some threads at these boards that have a huge number of posters, I expect to run into a certain...element (for lack of a better word). This place is homey.

I'd amire the moderators here for their openess. But I have to admit I admire Heather too. (OK, I mainly like her work in maintaining a FS TV schedule!) It can't be easy to moderate such a board when the numbers get up there. Hopefully as Sashafans continues to grow and grow, it can maintain a certain small town charm.

amidala

07-19-2005, 08:52 PM

[QUOTE=azncarrot]Actually, that was due to some reporter (Hersh, I think) saying in an article that even members of that board were critiquing her world's performance.

I do recall, there was a post w/in that thread that did proposition the board's leader to delete-out the less-than-positive posts about MK. Hersh's article just got the ball rolling, but there was one poster who did flat-out express her desire for negative posts to be shut-out due to the post Worlds heat(Hersh may have ruffled their feathers,but this poster just wanted all negativity of any kind about Michelle ceased, and I think her reasoning was, "What if MK were to read this board today? Let's stop the madness"-or something like that). And I recall specifically, that this board's owner posted a response that completely disagreed w/ this idea, to paraphrase, she said it basically goes against the whole reason for having a public forum (where differing opinions of posts should exist).

chechgoil

07-21-2005, 02:28 AM

I think skaters can skate to any darned thing they wanna skate to! It's their choice and not ours.

azncarrot

07-21-2005, 11:14 AM

I do recall, there was a post w/in that thread that did proposition the board's leader to delete-out the less-than-positive posts about MK. Hersh's article just got the ball rolling, but there was one poster who did flat-out express her desire for negative posts to be shut-out due to the post Worlds heat(Hersh may have ruffled their feathers,but this poster just wanted all negativity of any kind about Michelle ceased, and I think her reasoning was, "What if MK were to read this board today? Let's stop the madness"-or something like that). A lot of them were embarrassed that the forum was caught being anything less than 100% fully supportive of all of Michelle's performances and decisions. Unfortunately, the ones who agree are the most vocal and rabid.

loveskating

07-21-2005, 09:50 PM

There are just so many interesting things one could talk about when it comes to music. So I find it a great big bore that what gets discussed is always whatever suits a group of fans!

For instance, I found it inspiring that Irina tried to skate to La Traviata, which is very, very lyrical and requires a very fluid skater to do it justice...Irina never quite managed it in competition, but it was so edgy for her to try! Same thing when Kwan tried Tosca!

I like it when skaters use music which has not been used before...like when Boitano skated to Nessun Dorma! But I don't see any inherent value in skating to somthng either new or old. It needs to be really good for me is all, and to suit the skater.

honey827

07-21-2005, 10:26 PM

The only response I have to the comments posted here about MKF are people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. It really doesn't make anyone look any better. In any case as Tony posted he was not sure about the music choice and what cuts Michelle is going to use from Rachmaninov. If she does indeed use Rach for the long and the cuts are as good as they were for her sp I will be happy. It has the potential to be a very good program for her imo and I am excited to see what she and TT can do together for choreography.

nvodivo

07-24-2005, 02:06 AM

I still think Michelle Should skate to Irina's Music from Last year-

Oh and for her short program she can use Otonal for shirt in tribute to Maria Butyrskaya-

:)

Dilng

07-24-2005, 04:21 PM

I still think Michelle Should skate to Irina's Music from Last year-

Oh and for her short program she can use Otonal for shirt in tribute to Maria Butyrskaya-

:)

Michelle wouldn't be able to do as good of a job as Irina because she doesn't have Irina's jumps, spins or speed!! :)

loveskating

07-30-2005, 11:33 AM

[QUOTE=honey827]The only response I have to the comments posted here about MKF are people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. It really doesn't make anyone look any better. QUOTE]

One other thing that distinguishes Sasha's fans, so far, from that section of Kwan's fans who post around the net and are off the map is that we will not lie about skating standards for Sasha or anyone else...for instance, no one here denies that Sasha flutzes, while I can personally testify that it has taken Kwan's fans, all of them, years to admit that she flutzes most of the time, and at best takes off from the flat, not the left outside edge!

We gently teach new people as well about such things.